How do you workout the "legal" age of a bike?.

[gaz]

Purely hypothetical and to give you something to think about.

Many regulations depend upon the age of your bicycle, mostly lighting and reflectors but I think also brakes and some others.

So how old is it? Can you apply the adage of "It's my grandfather's bike, of course it's had two new frames and a few pairs of wheels but it's still my grandfather's bike."

What if the frame is 1940's but the components are modern?

My own bike is not my grandfather's and even the most minor components can't be traced back any further than 1988 so it's not going to change my own lighting/reflector requirements whatever the answer.

I'm simply interested to know your thoughts.

[Mick F]

Question:
Do Penny-Farthings need pedal reflectors?

Gordon only knows!

I always profess that a bike is just a collection of components .......

[hubgearfreak]

So how old is it? Can you apply the adage of "It's my grandfather's bike, of course it's had two new frames and a few pairs of wheels but it's still my grandfather's bike."

What if the frame is 1940's but the components are modern?

i would have thought that if the frame and forks are still the same, then the bike is the same.
new tubes & tyres are needed quite early on in a bikes life expectancy, even aluminium, and then chains & sprockets followed later by wheels are all also consumable items.

the DVLA has something similar written down for motorbikes.....

* motorcycles must use:

Unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle; forks, wheels and engine or gear box.

If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

[meic]

I think (or hope) that when it comes to motorbikes you can replace all the different parts with new parts if they are the same specification components. I really havent a clue where the various parts of my motorbikes started their life, apart from the frame! Fortunately the log book says engine number "not specified" on one of them.

I can not accurately date either of my cycles, so I doubt that the Police could. I assume from their style that they are pre-1987 if it came to a prosecution the Police should have to prove otherwise. It would be a chance to see how good the CTC solicitor is.

[DaveP]

I think you would find, should this question ever need to be resolved in a court room, that the identity of the structure would reside in the frame, being the element that (normally) bears the durable ie. stamped identifying marks. If there are no marks to be found then the frame is still, in common sense terms the large component around which the lesser parts are assembled.
So, if you pranged your grandads frame the surviving parts would end up on a different bike, even if the only bit that made it "grandads bike" was, lets say, the hand knitted saddle

[dave holladay]

Prompts me to ask about the use of a traditional Dutch or Danish utility bike which comes with the weight and maintenance reducing feature of having no cables or fiddly things like brake calipers ......and presumably remain legal in EU member states and thus legal in the UK?

[vernon]

Purely hypothetical and to give you something to think about.

Many regulations depend upon the age of your bicycle, mostly lighting and reflectors but I think also brakes and some others.

So how old is it? Can you apply the adage of "It's my grandfather's bike, of course it's had two new frames and a few pairs of wheels but it's still my grandfather's bike."

What if the frame is 1940's but the components are modern?

My own bike is not my grandfather's and even the most minor components can't be traced back any further than 1988 so it's not going to change my own lighting/reflector requirements whatever the answer.

I'm simply interested to know your thoughts.

I doubt that anyone will lose sleep over the determination of age. In many instances bikes especially ones whose manufacturers have long since folded (sic) are of an indeterminate age. Dawes can not date its own bikes because it doesn't keep a register of frame numbers etc. Who's to say when a 1985 manufactured bike for instance is actually sold.

I wonder how many court cases dealing with lighting and pedal reflector issues there's been since the legislation was introduced.

On a slightly different tack, there's an eccentric woman who posts in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup who spent a considerable amount of time seeking the answer to "When exactly is a bike born?" i.e. date and time so that she could cast a horoscope for her recently acquired new bike.

A bike is a collection of bits. My Dawes Galaxy has little in common with the one that I purchased apart from the bars, frame, brake calipers, seatpost and racks. If Dawes can't date it I oubt that anyone else can especially since I've had the frame restoved.

[Sorebutt]

For top end bikes maybe you could use carbon dating ?

[Paul R]

Perhaps a bike should be aged on it's critical component of greatest mass, this of course means that a standard bike should be aged by it's rider who is after all the engine therefore a critical component.

I'll remove my tongue from my cheek as soon as I hit the submit button

[Tandemist]

Does that mean I don't need to bother with lights on my 1939 Sunbeam Tandem then ???

[DaveP]

Possibly not, but if you're going to give it a go it would be a good idea to ensure that both engine serial numbers are contemporary...

[Tandemist]

It's okay, most of the bike is black so they won't be able to see me to aim at in the dark !

[Cyril Haearn]

Perhaps a bike should be aged on it's critical component of greatest mass, this of course means that a standard bike should be aged by it's rider who is after all the engine therefore a critical component.

I'll remove my tongue from my cheek as soon as I hit the submit button

Plus One!

[Cunobelin]

I think you would find, should this question ever need to be resolved in a court room, that the identity of the structure would reside in the frame, being the element that (normally) bears the durable ie. stamped identifying marks. If there are no marks to be found then the frame is still, in common sense terms the large component around which the lesser parts are assembled.
So, if you pranged your grandads frame the surviving parts would end up on a different bike, even if the only bit that made it "grandads bike" was, lets say, the hand knitted saddle

Trigger’s Broom?

[peetee]

Where can one find these old and new regulations for bikes?