Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

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ians
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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby ians » 17 Jun 2013, 5:25pm

horizon wrote:
Expensive, but it'll last a lifetime

Actually that's also silly.



There is a lot to dislike about the article but .... there is nothing wrong with the last sentence. It's a simple statement that many people that many people use - myself included - to justify buying something expensive. I have a Rolhoff hub - expensive but it'll last a life time. (Mine anyway). Do you think I'm silly?

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horizon
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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby horizon » 17 Jun 2013, 11:07pm

ians wrote:
horizon wrote:
Expensive, but it'll last a lifetime

Actually that's also silly.



There is a lot to dislike about the article but .... there is nothing wrong with the last sentence. It's a simple statement that many people that many people use - myself included - to justify buying something expensive. I have a Rolhoff hub - expensive but it'll last a life time. (Mine anyway). Do you think I'm silly?


No, because the cost of the hub is intrinsic to its durability. That's both true and untrue for a frame in that some of the cost will contribute to its longevity but gas pipe may last equally long - a Roberts frame is a joy to ride and own. Even if it only lasted five years it would still be expensive. Any my other point was that the whole bike actually won't last a lifetime. Of course until someone defines the length of a lifetme then the whole thing is hot air anyway.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby Edwards » 18 Jun 2013, 8:18am

horizon wrote: Any my other point was that the whole bike actually won't last a lifetime.


But you are not purchasing the whole bike for that price (plus £45 more). You are purchasing a frameset.

If steel is real I hope that the frame would last more than 5 years, unless the same happens as to mine.
I would say a lifetime is about 15 years in my case, would a good steel frame last that long?
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meic
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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby meic » 18 Jun 2013, 9:57am

I think an easy, good thirty years is to be expected from a steel frame which is kept undercover but not carefully maintained.
If cherished, they should last a whole, "real" lifetime.

Though I reserve "last a lifetime" for titanium frames as I sweat profusely over my frames and havent rinsed and waxed them after rides. They are now at either side of thirty years old and very rusty.
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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby Ayesha » 18 Jun 2013, 11:07am

"Last a lifetime".

An object where the owner will 'peg it' before the object becomes unserviceable.

For bicycles in London, this could be quite short .

Or the demise of bike AND rider could coincide.

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby patricktaylor » 18 Jun 2013, 11:46pm

horizon wrote:... So: is the Guardian silly?

Not for a newspaper. Silly is better than repulsive anyway (some other newspapers).

The Roberts comment - I don't think it matters about the "last a lifetime" thing. It just means it's a very good bike.

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Re: If it's going to last a lifetime...

Postby Gearoidmuar » 19 Jun 2013, 8:56am

How do they stop e.g. the dropouts from fatigueing? I've had them go in older bikes, most recently in my now thrown-out 13 year old Dawes Galaxy..

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby hexhome » 19 Jun 2013, 9:12am

My 32 year old 531 Dawes Renown is still going strong. I hope that both of us have another 20 years left :-)

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby mrjemm » 19 Jun 2013, 10:51am

patricktaylor wrote:
horizon wrote:... So: is the Guardian silly?

Not for a newspaper. Silly is better than repulsive anyway (some other newspapers).


Agreed. But then I think that question is rather leading, and inviting of 'Tea Shop' type off topic 'discussion', as has been touched upon. Or am I being cynical, Mr Horizon? :wink:

I don't believe any other UK newspaper promotes cycling, at least so regularly and enthusiastically. This article is perhaps the editorial team being willing to put another type of cycle orientated feature in print.

As for referring to a Roberts being made to last a lifetime, well, from what I hear of their reputation, it may be so, if used carefully, otherwise, it's a standard figure of speech, call it cliche or platitude if you please, but, to take it literally and come up with possible scenarios where it wouldn't (or would) do so, is a tad silly.

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby al_yrpal » 19 Jun 2013, 11:12am

There is something promoting cycling in The Times practically every day. This morning they reported that their online cycling petition has 67000 signatures and that there will be a parliamentary debate on it very soon. There is also a weekly cycling column in the Sunday Times which covers all sorts of aspects of cycling with a Q and A section. Although a lot of folk seem to like to rubbish The Times, I think they have done a lot lately, more effectively than the CTC have achieved over the last year, to promote cycle safety. Pity they have an online paywall which prevents non subscribers from seeing it. The Guardian is dying with less than 200,000 circulation, losing 10% since last year whereas The Times lost less than 2%, the most stable circulation of practically all British newspapers , no doubt boosted by their paywall tablet, PC and smartphone version. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/table/2 ... newspapers

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby patricktaylor » 19 Jun 2013, 11:53am

To be fair, apart from the 'i' they are all in decline as hard copy. The Guardian has a 12.7 per cent market share.

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horizon
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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby horizon » 19 Jun 2013, 12:29pm

mrjemm wrote:
But then I think that question is rather leading, and inviting of 'Tea Shop' type off topic 'discussion', as has been touched upon. Or am I being cynical, Mr Horizon? :wink:



I think this forum is the appropriate place to point out (and air one's frustration with) lazy journalism and factual errors. That's why I called it silly - it wasn't so terrible, just a bit, well silly. The article promised to be good overview of good city bikes which it obviously then wasn't. The Guardian got tarred with same brush but then they are supposed to have sub-editors. By the way my original reason for posting was actually to verify the error amongst people who would know. Otherwise I largely agree with comments defending both the TImes and the Guardian - maybe I was expecting better from the Guardian.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby pete75 » 19 Jun 2013, 12:29pm

From the Roberts website "And, history has shown that, if properly cared for, a steel frame will last a lifetime (and then some)."

http://www.robertscycles.com/robertsprimersteel.html

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horizon
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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby horizon » 19 Jun 2013, 12:31pm

pete75 wrote:From the Roberts website "And, history has shown that, if properly cared for, a steel frame will last a lifetime (and then some)."

http://www.robertscycles.com/robertsprimersteel.html


Yes, but not the whole bike. It seems like splitting hairs but it (the article, not Roberts) is actually giving a misleading impression about what owning a bike is all about. I wouldn't have raised it specially but I was on the case at the time so threw it in for free. :wink:
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

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Re: Silly Guardian - have they got it wrong about Roberts?

Postby patricktaylor » 19 Jun 2013, 12:34pm

Either way Horizon, I subscribe to your new signature (but I think it's privileged isn't it?).