dutch style roadster..

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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breakwellmz
Posts: 1982
Joined: 8 May 2012, 9:33pm

Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby breakwellmz » 28 Oct 2013, 8:59pm

Brucey wrote:Actually on a Pashley, through accident or design (I suspect the former...), several of their bikes use an inexpensive single-walled endrick type aluminium rim. Although not a super strong rim, this usually lasts for ages provided the spoke tension is good; there are no eyelets to rust, the material is soft and doesn't suffer SCC, and the hub brakes don't wear it obviously...

This rim also has the inestimable benefit that it has a deep well (like Super Champion Mod 58 rims used to have) and most tyres come on and off quite easily. I still use tyre levers (with a robust puncture-proof tyre fitted) but with some tyres they would definitely be optional.

This makes puncture fixes (with or especially without wheel removal) a fair bit easier than they might otherwise be.

So with a roadster, I'd suggest that the type of wheel rim is more important than with some other bikes; although the rims on 26" wheeled Sovereign models have been good this way in the past, they may have changed them; most westwood rims are terrible for getting the tyres off, and some modern double-walled rims are not great either. The Guvnor and some other current Pashley models are fitted with aluminium westwood style rims (in 635mm BSD) and they are an absolute pig to get the tyres on and off of.

cheers


What do you think about their frame production quality control? IRMCML :wink:

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Mr. Viking
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Location: Liverpool

Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby Mr. Viking » 28 Oct 2013, 11:41pm

I have a Dawes graduate. Do most of my cycling on it. 5 speed gears, hub brakes. It has not been zero maintenance but much closer than other bikes I have used. I had trouble with the rear wheel moving in the stays but i have never ridden a bike where this has not been an issue. One thing I like are the heavy duty wheels, 36 2mm spokes, which despite being abused have stayed perfectly true

It has been ridden in hard weather for commuting one year and general riding for 3. The chaincase has surface and paint peeled off, though this was mostly due to being stored outside for it's first year. The frame has no signs of damage or corrosion apart from where I have chipped the paint.

I have never cleaned the bike. It still runs great. It was a smidge under £400 4 years ago. The frame is in perfect nick and the brakes bedded in nicely only thing I wouid change would be 90mm rather than 70mm drums. i had looked at Pashleys before but couldn't justify the extra cost for what seemed to amount to detailing and a handbuilt frame, which i didn't see as a big deal because the frames are so heavy they should be strong regardless.

The brake levers are nice to use, though the screw barrel on one has broken. Comes with a bottle dynamo that works but isn't ideal.

Sadly Dawes have stopped making this model and only seem to do deraileur models similar which won't be so robust. Halfords Real classic range looked identical but at a lower price and with some slightly different components though they no longer list the mens' frame on their website they might have some old stock

My only difficulty would be replacing the tyres, as it is fiddly to remove the rear wheel.

fatty
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Joined: 5 Nov 2012, 3:26pm
Location: swinton south yorkshire

Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby fatty » 28 Oct 2013, 11:53pm

Wow...
I think my mind is made up on the pashley as slowly cycling to work in smart work wear sounds good and from what I can see it seems the heavyweight roadster has a lot of love plus I can order on cycle to work voucher and get a bit of a saving too :) probably go for the roadster sovereign as its a once in a lifetime investment hopefully....

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Mr. Viking
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Location: Liverpool

Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby Mr. Viking » 28 Oct 2013, 11:54pm

you'll grow to love the hub brakes

Brucey
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Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby Brucey » 29 Oct 2013, 7:07am

the 'once in a lifetime' argument may still be true of this kind of bike, but I believe it is not backed by any such warranty from Pashley, sadly. When I bought mine it came with a ten-year frame warranty, but when you buy one now I think it comes with a shorter warranty; you should check carefully here, as it is not detailed in their brochure. IIRC there are warranty details on the tag attached to the bars on new bikes.

In fairness I have every reason to believe that they might replace a frame outside of the warranty period if it was clearly of defective manufacture, but TBH I'd expect a better warranty than that. Other manufacturers manage to offer a lifetime frame warranty, and if Pashley did likewise it might be a strong selling point.

The current brochure says that the sovereign model comes with the X-RD5(W) hub as suspected. It also says 28 x 1-1/2" tyres, which should mean a 635mm rim (but could a 622mm rim since both rims can have tyres with these markings). Nothing wrong with 635mm per se but there is far less choice in tyres and rims.

cheers
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thirdcrank
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Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Oct 2013, 8:12am

Speaking more generally, many (most?) manufacturers' guarantees are almost worthless, especially with expressions like "lifetime." Apart from anything else, they usually only cover manufacturing faults, which are unlikely to remain undetected, only to become obvious several years later. They tend not to cover anything failing after the years of constant use that anybody looking for a guarantee expects from the product. OTOH, there's a real danger that if the product fails early on simply because it's not good enough, the retailer will try to hide behind the manufacturer's guarantee. This is partly why in the UK, any guarantees have to exclude some expression indicating that statutory rights are not affected.

An example of a manufacturing fault going undetected for years before the item failed happened when I was at school and the metalwork teacher made an extra effort to tighten a large vice - he was practically swinging on the sliding bar handle. One of the jaws broke, revealing a big bubble inside - a large part of the jaw was fresh air. In those days when "traveller" meant something different to what it means today, somebody drove up from Sheffield with a no-quibble replacement and took the broken one away, presumably to show what had happened. With something like that, even today, nobody could suggest it was wear and tear.

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Swizz69
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Location: Hyde

Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby Swizz69 » 29 Oct 2013, 9:15am

The Sovereign has 635 rims.

TBH when I tried one it wasn't love at first ride.

My wife got a Pashley Britannia (variation on the Princess model) though and that does seem to be a well sorted machine.

Mr Fatty - if I were in your boots I'd try for a test ride on a Pashley & some of the equivalent Dutchbikes before making your mind up - worth the effort just to put your own mind at rest.

thirdcrank
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Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Oct 2013, 9:36am

Cycle Heaven are very good with test rides and not a million miles from Sth Yorks. . (No connection, apart from buying my Birdy there.)

fatty
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Location: swinton south yorkshire

Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby fatty » 29 Oct 2013, 9:47am

I'll pop up to to York in the next couple of weeks and report back chaps.. :D

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StellaLdn.
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Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby StellaLdn. » 29 Oct 2013, 10:24am

If you can, take a look at Mamacharis. I work in a shop in London that sells them. They're second hand Japanese bikes, pretty similar to Dutch bikes, very sturdy and much more affordable than Pashleys. Prices are between 100 and 225, but you'd have to make a trip down to London, I guess. Every now and again there are some on Gumtree or e-Bay. I'm riding one myself, if I'm not on my racers, and I'm pretty much loving it. Hub gears, front hub dynamo, rear roller brake and even a basket. :-)
Other than that, try Dutch bikes. I think you can get them easily from e-Bay or Gumtree, etc. They're the real deal, but beware (applies also to mamacharis): if you have a rear puncture, you're in for at least 30 minutes of fussing with all the screws and whatnot. Not much fun if you're in a rush.

Gosh, just seen you're quite up north. That's a tad too long a trip, I guess. Sorry.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
-- Confucius

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Brucey
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Re: dutch style roadster..

Postby Brucey » 29 Oct 2013, 12:16pm

thirdcrank wrote:Speaking more generally, many (most?) manufacturers' guarantees are almost worthless, especially with expressions like "lifetime."...


Well for a warranty to work OK the manufacturer, importer and LBS all have to be onside in some cases.

One LBS near me has always been really helpful to its customers with frame warranties so if they sell you a bike with a lifetime frame warranty then that is exactly what it means. However they no longer stock one particular (well known) brand, in good part I think because the importer for that brand had a rather different idea from the LBS about what constituted acceptable failure rates/warranty support.

without wishing to point any fingers I get the impression that some e.g. US brands get good ( barring crash damage) lifetime/10year frame warranties which pretty much mean what they say in the home market but don't always work so smoothly over here; one can only look to the importers in these cases.

cheers
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