cold sweat

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Dave W
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Jul 2012, 4:17pm

cold sweat

Post by Dave W »

How do you combat cold sweat? Today I cycled with an Aldi baselayer and a branded breathable cycling jersey. At the first stop I could feel the sweat running down my back, One of our group got a puncture and stopped for at least half an hour (don't ask :roll: ). By now I was really cold and likewise at the end of a ride I was freezing after sitting indoors for coffee.

How do you regulate your heat?
misterrea
Posts: 34
Joined: 18 Dec 2011, 1:58pm

Re: cold sweat

Post by misterrea »

use a merino wool as baselayer. will be a lot less uncomfortable even if damp
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: cold sweat

Post by 531colin »

Don't wear anything windproof unless you really have to.
My winter jacket is windproof on the front and sleeves, but not the back.....wonderful
Ayesha
Posts: 4192
Joined: 30 Jan 2010, 9:54am

Re: cold sweat

Post by Ayesha »

Check the temperature and windspeed on the weather forecast. Calculate the windchill factor.
To choose how many layers you're gonna need.
Using 0,03 W/(m.K) [The thermoconductivity of water soaked fabrics], your torso surface area, the thickness of your layers and the temperature difference between Neutral Skin Temperature and the windchill temperature; you can calculate how many Watts you are losing.

If these Watts are greater than 600, you will get hypothermia in one hour.
User avatar
speedsixdave
Posts: 868
Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
Location: Ashbourne, UK

Re: cold sweat

Post by speedsixdave »

I don't think it's possible to regulate temperature to that degree with a fixed amount of clothing. You'll be cold when you start, then get hot when you ride, and will get cold again when you stop again. I think the only practical way is to carry a jacket or other outer layer that you can take off when you get warm and put on again when you cool down. You just have to remember to take it off before you start sweating too much!

It's possible there are pricey and wonderful fabrics and garments that can regulate temperature successfully between hill climbing and puncture-mending, but I have yet to find them or be able to afford them.

Or you could try Ayesha's calculations...
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
JohnW
Posts: 6667
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: cold sweat

Post by JohnW »

misterrea wrote:use a merino wool as baselayer. will be a lot less uncomfortable even if damp


+1

There isn't a perfect, completely successful, solution however.

With reference to Colin531's post - from experience I agree completely, except that to keep the wind off my chest I sometimes stick either a page of the Yorkshire Post or Huddersfield Examiner up my jumper - under the top layer. The Halifax Courier works just as well, but that only come weekly now and I don't bother. When the newspaper become waterlogged with sweat, I can throw it away and get a spare from my saddlebag.

I do, however, wear a waterproof in heavy rain - but that wasn't the question.

Specialised and Altura base-layers are more effective than the Aldi or Lidl ones.
binsted
Posts: 329
Joined: 6 Jun 2012, 1:13pm

Re: cold sweat

Post by binsted »

speedsixdave wrote:I don't think it's possible to regulate temperature to that degree with a fixed amount of clothing. You'll be cold when you start, then get hot when you ride, and will get cold again when you stop again. I think the only practical way is to carry a jacket or other outer layer that you can take off when you get warm and put on again when you cool down. You just have to remember to take it off before you start sweating too much!



Thats pretty much it, without being patronising its just common sense. You only need to do a couple of rides in cold weather to work out what works for you.

I went out yesterday with base layer, long sleeved club top and Gorewear Oxygen top. When I got to the the meeting place (about 4 miles) took off the Gorewear top and put on a gilet, perfect for the duration of the ride. I don't think there is anything in the market that will work equally when you are pedalling hard then standing still for twenty minutes, you have to adapt.
AndyBSG
Posts: 382
Joined: 10 Jul 2013, 11:16am

Re: cold sweat

Post by AndyBSG »

Dave W wrote:How do you combat cold sweat?


I just man up and tough it out :)

Joking aside, I don't actually wear a base layer because I seem to generate such a ridiculous amount of body heat while cycling that even on a cold day i'm sweating within seconds. I like to think it's because I cycle hard and fast rather than that i'm such a chubby 16 stone porker that I have an excessive amount of fat insulating me :)

So, if I do get a period where i'm stopping for a length of time all I have on is a cycling jersey with maybe a waterproof over the top. I always carry a small face towel in my bag so I just unzip the top a bit and wipe off my face, neck, top of my back and underarms which seems to sort the worst of it out.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: cold sweat

Post by 531colin »

Agreed that you need a spare layer or even 2....one windproof shell that takes up almost no room, and one extra jersey.
And you can start cold and warm up, or start warm and shed a layer.....doing the latter, you could cut down on an extra layer in the bag.
On the question of one garment with a wide useable temperature range, these http://hillandmountain.paramo.co.uk/Paramo-Shop/Baselayers/Mens-Baselayers/Mens-Reversible-Shirts/6801-/Mountain-Pull-On are remarkable. I like to get away in May and September to the Lakes or Dales, and do some tracks. In cloud, I can just wear one of those shirts, and be OK both climbing (or pushing!) with the shirt open at the neck and outside my shorts, and also descending with the shirt zipped up and tucked in. I am regularly surprised how wet the shirt is, and I'm warm inside. I always wear them pile side in, if its dry and reasonably warm I prefer a short sleeved cycle jersey.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: cold sweat

Post by 531colin »

AndyBSG wrote:......... I don't actually wear a base layer because I seem to generate such a ridiculous amount of body heat while cycling that even on a cold day i'm sweating within seconds. ............all I have on is a cycling jersey with maybe a waterproof over the top.........


Try 2 jerseys, no windproof. You'll be much more comfortable
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: cold sweat

Post by Mick F »

I too get cold if I stop, or maybe have a series of downhills. Once or twice I've been cold to the bones with blue fingers and it can take an hour or more back home to warm up.

It's the windchill that gets to me. The autumn weather isn't the problem, it's the sweating and chilling off when going at speed. Damp weather is worst, but it's not temperature itself. I've been freezing cold in July and August! I have a couple of Goretex jackets, but they aren't much use for keeping me warm.

I would like a windproof base layer, perhaps only windproof at the front and on the arms.
Any ideas/recommendations?
Mick F. Cornwall
reohn2
Posts: 45159
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: cold sweat

Post by reohn2 »

Good advice from Colin.
When ride I try to dress so I'm,what I term as on the edge,not too warm not too cold,it can be diffult to gauge sometimes but three or four thin layers are better than say two thick ones.I can then take a layer off when riding and put it one if I have to stop,if I stop and go inside a cafe I immediately take top layers off.
If I have to stop for a puncture or mechanical,the first thing I do is undo an layers I'm wearing and if there's any wind and I feel myself cooling I put on a wind top or waterproof,as soon as I'm moving again off with the w/top.
I like a gilet for descending or riding into a cold wind and regulate the heat with the zip,making sure I don't get too warm and sweaty before unzipping it a bit.

The trick is not to fool yourself into getting snugly warm when riding,it just promotes sweating which inevitably goes cold on the skin.
If you carry a lot of body fat you will sweat,in which case a spare baselayer is good to carry and change into at a cafe,if the toilet has a hot air hand dryer a sweaty b/layer can be dried off or at least warmed up under it.
I like Lowe Alpine and Helly Hanson B/layers but find Merino wool too warm for me.
I find thermal head wear(under helmet skull caps or woolly hats) can raise body temp alarmingly,especially when climbing.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Brucey
Posts: 44522
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: cold sweat

Post by Brucey »

clever fabrics and layer combinations can very greatly reduce the heat loss through sweaty clothing. The idea is usually that the base layer does not conduct heat well even when damp, but does wick the moisture away to the surface (often a second layer) where it evaporates. The body is to some extent insulated from the chilling effect of the evaporation by the base layer.

The chilling effect of evaporation is incredibly powerful because of the high latent heat; it takes approximately ten times more energy to turn liquid water at 99.9C into vapour than it does to heat water from ambient to 99.9C. This (in reverse) is also why quite small quantities of steam can scald so badly.

It is estimated that 'at rest' we might produce 100W of heat or so, whilst power is generated with only ~25% efficiency. So (say) 250W of pedal power means ~750W of heat generated in the body.

When we ride hard we sweat all over and some of this is necessary to keep us cool. The problems come when we stop, because the clothing is now wet, and sweating may continue for a few minutes whilst the heat generated and transported within the body may suddenly drop to a small fraction (somewhere between 1/5 and 1/10) of what it was.

On the plus side the wind chill factor can also reduce significantly if you stop having been riding at speed. So in reasonable weather, you don't freeze when you stop. But other circumstances (e.g. stopping at the top of a climb with a following wind) can suddenly produce more wind chill, not less. Obviously cold weather is worse too, because base layers may be damper and it is colder anyway.

So for cycling, the answer is to have clever layers, and like Colin says, be prepared to ring the changes. When it isn't raining and the humidity isn't too high, I find I can ride comfortably down to ~ -5C with two layers on top and one on the bottom; both outer layers being wind-fronted.

Starting off is tricky; it is easy to get cold before you have fully warmed up. Wearing a waterproof layer is OK for about five minutes but it is often best to discard it after this (because it will get too wet and sweaty inside) and only replace it again when you stop. Windproof layers are better (unless it is actually raining) because they can often be left on.

The other solution (for touring/commuting) is simply not to ride so hard; Arctic explorers (who have all the clothing problems we do but with knobs on) apparently have a saying; "if you sweat, you die". So my understanding is that they basically try and limit their efforts to those which won't produce excessive sweating inside the clothing.

This will vary with the fitness level and build of an individual, but in relative terms this is probably about the same effort as a reasonably brisk walk, no more. On a bicycle this is maybe 12-15mph rather than (say) a normal speed of 15-20mph. With walking gear, what water vapour is generated is largely carried out of the clothing by air 'burping' out of the space between the body and the clothing as the wearer moves; this can be adjusted by opening various zips as necessary. This scheme can work OK (at modest effort) on a bike too, but the clothes are necessarily somewhat baggy if they don't breathe well (which they won't if they are truly waterproof IME). I used to commute sometimes in heavy rain, and my strategy was to wear a baggy waterproof and to ride more slowly than normal so that I didn't 'boil up' inside. This added five or ten minutes onto a 45 min commute but it seemed to work OK.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 11 Nov 2013, 10:25am, edited 1 time in total.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tatanab
Posts: 5033
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: cold sweat

Post by tatanab »

Mick F wrote:I would like a windproof base layer, perhaps only windproof at the front and on the arms. Any ideas/recommendations?
Gore make a whole range like that.

In UK style autumn/winter/spring I do not sweat around my body, although my head does (a hat/cap absorbs this so it is no problem). Consequently, down to about 7C I will wear a string vest with a very thin long sleeved top and a Roubaix style jacket. In the range from about 7C to 5C I will add a brown paper bag over my chest for windproofing. Below about 5C I replace the roubaix jacket with a jacket that has windproof front and sleeves with a roubaix back - something like the Endura Windchill jacket. That combination will get me down below freezing without problems.

However, I dress for moving, so when I stop I get chilled. Yesterday I was wearing the windproof jacket etc as above at a local event. I managed to stand in the sun, but even so I was shivering after an hour. Out of the sun it would probably have been 15 minutes. I have no problems with a short stop to change a tube if needed, that's only a few minutes and my mind is on other things.

I'd say that the answer to many problems is a jacket (or maybe a base layer as MickF is asking about) with wind proof front to body at least and a roubaix style fabric back for breathability.
Merry_Wanderer
Posts: 1002
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 9:33am
Location: North Leicestershire

Re: cold sweat

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

I wear a Buffalo Cycle Shirt (actually the Big Face mountaineering shirt, but it is the same except the colour) at this time of year and regulate heat by (un)zipping the pit zips. Yes, I sweat but the body heat I generate drives the sweat (or rain) out of the material when I cycle.

The Buffalo shirts are fibre pile with a pertex outer and are designed to be worn next to the skin for greatest breathability :-)
Post Reply