Waterproof for not cycling in?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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georgew
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby georgew » 24 Dec 2013, 10:16am

pete75 wrote:I wouldn't call an allegedly waterproof jacket that requires reproofing " perhaps a couple of times a year" as durable - quite the reverse. My 15 year old Helly Hanson hellytech jacket is still waterproof despite never having any treatment from reproofing products - thats durability.


I too have the Paramo Quito jacket and the Velez smock and would vouch for their durability and their effectiveness. The fact that I choose to reproof them by popping them in the washing machine with a squirt of Nikwax a couple of times a year doesn't strike me as onerous, neither does it detract from my view of their durability.

Don't take my word for it, but have a look at the many articles in the hiking/mountaineering forums which will evidence this.

pete75
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby pete75 » 24 Dec 2013, 10:28am

georgew wrote:
pete75 wrote:I wouldn't call an allegedly waterproof jacket that requires reproofing " perhaps a couple of times a year" as durable - quite the reverse. My 15 year old Helly Hanson hellytech jacket is still waterproof despite never having any treatment from reproofing products - thats durability.


I too have the Paramo Quito jacket and the Velez smock and would vouch for their durability and their effectiveness. The fact that I choose to reproof them by popping them in the washing machine with a squirt of Nikwax a couple of times a year doesn't strike me as onerous, neither does it detract from my view of their durability.

Don't take my word for it, but have a look at the many articles in the hiking/mountaineering forums which will evidence this.


It's not really a surprising requirement for a garment made by a company whose main business is manufacturing the Nikwax range of products.
My point is that a reliable waterproof garment shouldn't need reproofing - at least not twice a year.

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andrew_s
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby andrew_s » 24 Dec 2013, 10:30am

thirdcrank wrote:I've had one of those a while and it just drips the water on my legs a bit lower down, even though my legs are somewhat shorter than the very patronising people at Rohan think legs should be.
"A bit lower down" (i.e.mid thigh) is a lot better than the generality of modern climbing harness friendly waterproof jackets, which dump the run off into your crotch and trouser pockets. There is an even longer (shin length) version available, but that's full price.

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squeaker
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby squeaker » 24 Dec 2013, 10:55am

I think the OP was after something 'light' (mentions 130g for current jacket). Whatever one thinks of Paramo kit (I like it) light it isn't :roll: (As for price, try Paramo seconds.)

I'd have thought that we're looking for something like Montane produce but I have no experience of their current range.

IME you wont find anything truly waterproof (that you'd like to wear for very long) at 130g, though.
"42"

pete75
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby pete75 » 24 Dec 2013, 10:57am

andrew_s wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I've had one of those a while and it just drips the water on my legs a bit lower down, even though my legs are somewhat shorter than the very patronising people at Rohan think legs should be.
"A bit lower down" (i.e.mid thigh) is a lot better than the generality of modern climbing harness friendly waterproof jackets, which dump the run off into your crotch and trouser pockets. There is an even longer (shin length) version available, but that's full price.


At one time it was common practice to wear a fairly long waterproof in conjunction with almost knee height gaiters. This kept most of you dry without the disadvantage of waterproof trousers for walking.

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simonineaston
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby simonineaston » 24 Dec 2013, 11:01am

I went through a phase, not entirely abandoned, of using my Buffalo Mountain Shirt a lot of the time, but always felt I'd like to find something with a smarter look and that didn't reveal my (iron-hard... ;-) ) tummy to the incredulous gaze of the open-plan office when I hauled it off over my head. I bought a Rohan Waymark last year and although it looks great, it's not ideal for cycling for one reason and another... it's hard to find that magic garment that does it all!
I've been thinking about Paramo for years - nearly everyone who owns one of their garments is v. positive about them. Maybe it's time I gave them a try. Re re-proofing, there's hardly a modern fabric out there that doesn't benefit from proper care - the Helly Hansen plastic stuff did a great job of preventing moisture passing through, but it's yesterday technology - no offence to anyone who still cycles/walks in the stuff, but it never was the ideal outer garment for a sweaty pursuit.
I'd have thought popping your Paramo - or any other modern waterproof garment - in the washing machine with a splash of NikWax liquid counts more as maintenance. Dependability is another thing altogether. If anything, re-proofing probably contributes to its dependability.
As an aside, I bumped into a colleague a while ago, one of the 'suits' who always looks smart about the office. There he was on the way out in a very scruffy, UV-faded Altura hi-viz jacket which of course immediately flags him as A Cyclist, so we struck up a conversation and now we're great cycling-chat-pals, so sometimes the more obvious attire has its uses!
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)

profpointy
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby profpointy » 24 Dec 2013, 11:08am

pete75 wrote:
georgew wrote:
pete75 wrote:I wouldn't call an allegedly waterproof jacket that requires reproofing " perhaps a couple of times a year" as durable - quite the reverse. My 15 year old Helly Hanson hellytech jacket is still waterproof despite never having any treatment from reproofing products - thats durability.


I too have the Paramo Quito jacket and the Velez smock and would vouch for their durability and their effectiveness. The fact that I choose to reproof them by popping them in the washing machine with a squirt of Nikwax a couple of times a year doesn't strike me as onerous, neither does it detract from my view of their durability.

Don't take my word for it, but have a look at the many articles in the hiking/mountaineering forums which will evidence this.


It's not really a surprising requirement for a garment made by a company whose main business is manufacturing the Nikwax range of products.
My point is that a reliable waterproof garment shouldn't need reproofing - at least not twice a year.


Though i do see what you're getting at, but it really isn't quite like that. I had my Paramo for a good few years before i botherd to reproof it - at which stage it was still a lot beetter than (my recollection of) a simllarly aged goretex.
And reproofing is a simple matter of sticking it in the washing machine with the special stuff - perhaps a couple of quid's worth out of a bottle. Think about the subtle differecnce between "maintenance free" and "not maintainable"

nirakaro
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby nirakaro » 24 Dec 2013, 11:16am

My fault – I didn’t give you enough information. I’m well sorted for heavy duty rain gear, what I want is something I can put in my pocket if the weather’s looking a bit iffy. And Ayesha, thanks for that Jessica, looks great, but I fear the cut means it’ll have to wait until the gender reassignment surgery’s finished!

pete75
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby pete75 » 24 Dec 2013, 11:20am

profpointy wrote:
pete75 wrote:
pete75 wrote:I wouldn't call an allegedly waterproof jacket that requires reproofing " perhaps a couple of times a year" as durable - quite the reverse. My 15 year old Helly Hanson hellytech jacket is still waterproof despite never having any treatment from reproofing products - thats durability.


I too have the Paramo Quito jacket and the Velez smock and would vouch for their durability and their effectiveness. The fact that I choose to reproof them by popping them in the washing machine with a squirt of Nikwax a couple of times a year doesn't strike me as onerous, neither does it detract from my view of their durability.

Don't take my word for it, but have a look at the many articles in the hiking/mountaineering forums which will evidence this]

It's not really a surprising requirement for a garment made by a company whose main business is manufacturing the Nikwax range of products.
My point is that a reliable waterproof garment shouldn't need reproofing - at least not twice a year.


Though i do see what you're getting at, but it really isn't quite like that. I had my Paramo for a good few years before i botherd to reproof it - at which stage it was still a lot beetter than (my recollection of) a simllarly aged goretex.
And reproofing is a simple matter of sticking it in the washing machine with the special stuff - perhaps a couple of quid's worth out of a bottle. Think about the subtle differecnce between "maintenance free" and "not maintainable"


My 15 year old Helly Hanson , which is made of breathable Hellytech material, hasn't needed reproofing in 15 years and is still waterproof despite much use. Almost any waterproof garment is maintainable by applying a reproofing product if it starts to let in water.

I appreciate what your saying though and maybe those who feel the need to reproof their jackets a couple of times a year are perhap a little obsessive.

pete75
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby pete75 » 24 Dec 2013, 11:22am

nirakaro wrote:My fault – I didn’t give you enough information. I’m well sorted for heavy duty rain gear, what I want is something I can put in my pocket if the weather’s looking a bit iffy. And Ayesha, thanks for that Jessica, looks great, but I fear the cut means it’ll have to wait until the gender reassignment surgery’s finished!




http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rain-cut-men ... 07361.html

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Neilo
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby Neilo » 24 Dec 2013, 11:49am

Goretex and the like do need reproofing from time to time to keep the water beading on the outside and thus breathable. Goretex works best when it is warm and damp on the inside and cold and dry on the out side. Once the material wets out, yes it is still water proof, as in it doesn't let any water in, but there is no way for water vapour, ie your sweat, to escape. And then you might as well be wearing a plastic mac. If you want something durable, that you can wear and wear for ever without any maintenance, and still be breathable, you'l be waiting a while I think. Most things need some maintenance from time, to get the best out of them, chain, wheel bearings, headset, waterproofs etc etc.
I don't think you will ever get an agreement on which is the best waterproof.
If it aint broke, fix it til it is.

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simonineaston
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby simonineaston » 24 Dec 2013, 12:50pm

Neilo wrote:Goretex works best when it is warm and damp on the inside and cold and dry on the out side.

Just the job for us Arctic Explorers! :-) Bit of let-down if you happen to be a sweaty cyclist in a maritime climate, though...
Just had a quick skwizz on that Paramo ebay site and they do indeed have many of their lines at prices about 50% off RRP. Won't do Nirakaro any good, gender reassignment or no, though as most appear to be quite weighty/bulky. Have made an offer on a Velez Light though. How exciting! :-)
TNF used to do a great-sounding smock that was literally pocketable, called the Triumph anorak - don't know if it's still available though.
(rides: Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)

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georgew
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby georgew » 24 Dec 2013, 1:39pm

pete75 wrote:
My 15 year old Helly Hanson , which is made of breathable Hellytech material, hasn't needed reproofing in 15 years and is still waterproof despite much use. Almost any waterproof garment is maintainable by applying a reproofing product if it starts to let in water.

I appreciate what your saying though and maybe those who feel the need to reproof their jackets a couple of times a year are perhap a little obsessive.


I've had a Helly Hanson waterproof and a number of Gore Tex jackets plus various others over the forty odd years I've been cycling and in my experience the Paramo gear beats the lot. I presume that you have also tried the Paramo gear given your definite views on the subject (or have you?) but I'm not sure why you should regard those who prefer this type of waterproof and are prepared to maintain it as "obsessive". If you regard a twice a year, twenty minute rinse in the washing machine as "obsessive" then heaven preserve me from ever glimpsing your underpants. :(

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RickH
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby RickH » 24 Dec 2013, 2:57pm

Rohan have got their Elite jacket (300g/800ml), along with a variety of other jackets, in their sale that starts on 27th. Preview here if you want more details.

Rick.
Edited - didn't spot earlier that my predictive text on my tablet had put Ronan instead of Rohan. :?
Last edited by RickH on 24 Dec 2013, 10:46pm, edited 1 time in total.

pete75
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Re: Waterproof for not cycling in?

Postby pete75 » 24 Dec 2013, 6:49pm

georgew wrote:
pete75 wrote:
My 15 year old Helly Hanson , which is made of breathable Hellytech material, hasn't needed reproofing in 15 years and is still waterproof despite much use. Almost any waterproof garment is maintainable by applying a reproofing product if it starts to let in water.

I appreciate what your saying though and maybe those who feel the need to reproof their jackets a couple of times a year are perhap a little obsessive.


I've had a Helly Hanson waterproof and a number of Gore Tex jackets plus various others over the forty odd years I've been cycling and in my experience the Paramo gear beats the lot. I presume that you have also tried the Paramo gear given your definite views on the subject (or have you?) but I'm not sure why you should regard those who prefer this type of waterproof and are prepared to maintain it as "obsessive". If you regard a twice a year, twenty minute rinse in the washing machine as "obsessive" then heaven preserve me from ever glimpsing your underpants. :(


Mmmmm what I was saying is that a waterproof garment which needs reproofing twice a year isn't exactly durable where that proofness is concerned - I got that impression from some posters here who seemed to be saying the stuff needed reproofing twice a year to remain waterproof.
Profpointy then posted saying he'd had his garment for some years before it needed reproofing. I've no reason to disbelieve him so twice a year reproofing does does seem unnecessary and a little obsessive.

Over the years, and unlike you it would seem, I've not had many waterproofs. Apart from a failed experiment with Goretex they've all worked satisfactorily for years and I tend to keep them while they do so.