I'm posting this here as it's important stuff..Diet etc

[Gearoidmuar]

The purpose of the post was to outline the latest knowledge on why e.g. Britain has four or five times the coronary heart disease rate of France and why the British are the most obese in Europe (the Irish not far behind) and why the approach to treating these has been so wrong.

Not everyone needs to go on this diet, but most people would be well advised to go half way there.
To go half way there you could eat more fat, a lot less starch, almost no sugar: If you're diabetic DON"T DO IT YOURSELF. You could get hypos.
Breakfast cereal, other than porridge may not affect you, but is bad for the population.
Eat butter rather than marg.

[Gearoidmuar]

I'm astonished. I have cycled three days on the trot, doing 40m, 30m and 50m today.
What's different is that my legs have not weakened over the three days which they would and my recovery is better. I think I'm getting a much more even blood sugar on this.
My total carb intake on this three days was one apple on days one and three.

[al_yrpal]

Its common knowledge that low carb diets like Atkins will produce low glucose readings for type 2 diabetics. But....my professional NHS diabetic dietician does not recommend them because they are a distortion of what we eat naturally.

Al

That's the only sentence I would quibble with. How can you talk about what you eat naturally. Is it the French naturally, the British naturally, the old generation naturally etc etc?

I think she means thay you don't have to eat all meat and blubber like an Inuit or massive plates of spuds and cabbage like a Russian peasant but a sensible balanced mix of carbs protien and fat.
There is the usual rash of barmy diets around as its new year. I have tried some of them over the years and the only one that worked was weight watchers, keepng a food diary. The trouble with WW is you don't know what the points mean? Using calorie counting is very easy and totally understandable. I see exercise as an integral part of the diet which I couldnt really manage on Atkins.

Al

[Gearoidmuar]

Ah... but today we have advanced medicine and that adds to longevity. My grandfather died in 1964 at the age of 87, he had had both legs amputated because of gangrene. I think he has undiagnosed diabetes. He was a removal man, an ambulance driver in WW1 and in later life he was a coalman. He loved things like bread and dripping, lots of beer and all sorts of 'unhealthy' things. His diabetes probably developed fast when he became old and less active, something I am trying personally to avoid.

Al

He probably was a diabetic. It can come on quite old.
Type 2 diabetes comes on with excessive exposure to sugar AND the genetic tendency. Type 2 diabetes was really rare before sugar came into the diet. Sugar in anything above a small amount, is poison to the human body. The reason for this is that we are equipped to only deal with a small amount. John Yudkin described all of this about 30+ years ago in his brilliant book, Pure White and Deadly.

[ukdodger]

My grandfather worked as a stoker in a brick works. Every day he cycled 6 miles to work, shovelled coal all day, cycled 6 miles home and then worked in his garden. He ate bacon and eggs for breakfast, tea and biscuits for elevenses, a cheese sandwich for lunch, and meat and two veg for tea, all washed down with tea + two sugars. If he could afford it he would have two or three pints in the pub on a Saturday evening. He was not overweight and never worried about what he ate.

The moral of the story is to be active and eat a balanced diet.

Sort of only works if he lived to a grand old age and was in relative good health through out. If he (heavens forbid) died due to diet related illness before he was 50 then maybe his approach might not be so great. And either way, we can't really base the future of the human race's eating habits on one isolated case.

Hardly isolated. In his day lots of people ate like that and lived a very long time. Both my grandfathers were the same and they went through WWl . Food then was not the processed nonsense it is now. Peoples eating habits were healthier and work a lot harder.

In his day food (this was on R4 last week) contained up to 50% more of what was nutritious than it does today.

[MikeF]

Sugar in anything above a small amount, is poison to the human body. The reason for this is that we are equipped to only deal with a small amount..

I presume you mean sucrose as refined sugar.

I think you'll find lack of exercise is a large contributor to the problems you describe as well as probably overeating of any food. As cyclists we probably do more exercise than many others in the population and one good reason to get more people cycling. When I attend the surgery for a blood pressure check up the main questions are about how much exercise I am doing.

How many overweight people were there in WWII? Doesn't that say something about modern diet?

[patricktaylor]

...I think you'll find lack of exercise is a large contributor to the problems you describe as well as probably overeating of any food...

My thoughts as well. Only a tiny percentage of the population bother with exercise of any kind. In fact people go to some trouble to park as close as possible to the front door of wherever they have driven to.

[Gearoidmuar]

Sugar in anything above a small amount, is poison to the human body. The reason for this is that we are equipped to only deal with a small amount..

I presume you mean sucrose as refined sugar.

I think you'll find lack of exercise is a large contributor to the problems you describe as well as probably overeating of any food. As cyclists we probably do more exercise than many others in the population and one good reason to get more people cycling. When I attend the surgery for a blood pressure check up the main questions are about how much exercise I am doing.

How many overweight people were there in WWII? Doesn't that say something about modern diet?

Refined sugar, yes.
Exercise is really important but there's a curious thing. Someone who sticks to the modern diet (food pyramid nonsense - this had NO scientific basis) who has a weight problem and has lost weight on a diet, CANNOT keep his weight down without exercising and in the course of time it will gradually come back on.
OTOH with the LCHF diet you don't need to exercise at all to keep it off, though exercise is recommded for everyone (a one hour walk 3 times a week, or running 2 miles 3/week confers most of the benefit).
I've dealt with the reason in my big spiel!

[Ayesha]

"How many overweight people were there in WWII? Doesn't that say something about modern diet?"

Why not try 'The ration book' diet....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ration-Book-Die ... 0750939451

[Gearoidmuar]

Its common knowledge that low carb diets like Atkins will produce low glucose readings for type 2 diabetics. But....my professional NHS diabetic dietician does not recommend them because they are a distortion of what we eat naturally.

Al

That's the only sentence I would quibble with. How can you talk about what you eat naturally. Is it the French naturally, the British naturally, the old generation naturally etc etc?

I think she means thay you don't have to eat all meat and blubber like an Inuit or massive plates of spuds and cabbage like a Russian peasant but a sensible balanced mix of carbs protien and fat.
There is the usual rash of barmy diets around as its new year. I have tried some of them over the years and the only one that worked was weight watchers, keepng a food diary. The trouble with WW is you don't know what the points mean? Using calorie counting is very easy and totally understandable. I see exercise as an integral part of the diet which I couldnt really manage on Atkins.

Al

Again, I have to come back on that. What is more sensible about a diet with a lot of carbs than one with few? Nothing. Science does not back it as sensible. The food pyramid has led to a Tsunami of obesity and type 2 diabetes (Type 1 is totally different ) around the world. The biggest fat-eaters were always the thinnest in the Framingham study. The word "balanced" as if by its very nature it has intrinsic qualities of goodness, is an illusion. It's like "wholemeal" or "natural". Tuberculosis, typhoid, gonorrhoea, syphilis and most diseases are "natural"
I had a balanced (in my parlance) breakfast this morning. I had 10 steamed Brussels sprouts with black pepper and butter, four giant flat mushrooms with melted cheese on top, grilled and a full fat Greek Yoghourt with a spoon of flax-seed mixed into it, and a couple of inches of Chorizo. It was gorgeous. Every morning since I went on this I have a different breakfast. I never used to vary my breakfast before.
If you eat a proper LCHF diet it's very varied, has tons of veg and is very high on nutritional content, unlike the "balance" of breakfast cereal (other than porridge) which is a sugar-bomb.
Dieticians have closed minds, at least most of them have, as have most doctors, but the doctors are beginning to see this particular light.
I've twice emailed the Dept of Health in Ireland about the fact that they still promote the Food Pyramid, something that was made up by a clerk, no less, in the American Dept of Agriculture. No answer.

[bigjim]

I thought the Stone Age men died younger because they tended to be killed by sabre tooth tigers etc? They also suffered hunting injuries inflicted by animals, accidents or fighting other tribes. I don't think there was much wrong with the Hunter/Gatherer diet.
On the subject of more protein. Is not the human colon configured much like the monkey that has protein in limited amounts?
I always thought that we needed bulk to keep the colon busy and slowly pushing waste matter through the system.
Unlike the true meat eater that has a straight colon which enables the toxic meat to be dipensed quickly by the body. In a human colon this meat can become trapped in the many bends, causing possible cancers as it goes off.
Sugar from Sugar cane or beet is a natural product. It is just mashed or spun to produce white sugar. I saw this being produced on a TV program a few weeks ago. I always thought it was messed with. Not so.

[al_yrpal]

had a balanced (in my parlance) breakfast this morning. I had 10 steamed Brussels sprouts with black pepper and butter, four giant flat mushrooms with melted cheese on top, grilled and a full fat Greek Yoghourt with a spoon of flax-seed mixed into it, and a couple of inches of Chorizo. It was gorgeous. Every morning since I went on this I have a different breakfast. I never used to vary my breakfast before.

Good luck with that! . Think I'll stick to what I am doing, I have several breakfast formats too. Hope you don't meet the fate of Dr Atkins

Al

[Gearoidmuar]

had a balanced (in my parlance) breakfast this morning. I had 10 steamed Brussels sprouts with black pepper and butter, four giant flat mushrooms with melted cheese on top, grilled and a full fat Greek Yoghourt with a spoon of flax-seed mixed into it, and a couple of inches of Chorizo. It was gorgeous. Every morning since I went on this I have a different breakfast. I never used to vary my breakfast before.

Good luck with that! . Think I'll stick to what I am doing, I have several breakfast formats too. Hope you don't meet the fate of Dr Atkins

Al

DR.Atkins did not die of his diet. He had a bout of viral carditis, something reasonably rare and he was in heart failure from that.
If you look at the NUMEROUS papers done since his time on this kind of diet, you will find that it produces a consistent great improvement in blood lipid profiles which reflect cardiac prognosis.
Someone with a high LDL cholesterol, esp with small particles, high blood triglycerides, and low HDL cholesterol has ALL of these bad parameters reversed by a high fat diet. This has been shown in EVERY such paper, yet it's still being resisted (BIG BAD Drug Companies have the doctors by the sphericals as regards research funding).
Look up some of the interviews with Prof TImothy Noakes on Line etc on this top. This man is a legend of science. Then look up Robert Lustig and you'll get more links from these.

Did you know that Sweden has adopted this diet recommendation recently as the opposite approach is clearly wrong. Swedes are not noted for their rashness..

[al_yrpal]

When the UK adopts a similar approach I'll listen. I tried it some years ago, it didn't work and wasn't compatible with cycling.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36661&hilit=atkins+diet

Al

[mjr]

Someone with a high LDL cholesterol, esp with small particles, high blood triglycerides, and low HDL cholesterol has ALL of these bad parameters reversed by a high fat diet. This has been shown in EVERY such paper, yet it's still being resisted (BIG BAD Drug Companies have the doctors by the sphericals as regards research funding).

Hang on a minute! If there's a conspiracy of drug companies restricting research, then how did those pro-LCHF research papers that you're waving your hands at get published? And I thought it was a conspiracy of sugar traders? Or are the sugar traders in cahoots with the drug companies?

I've read many papers and I've tried quite a few things, but the bottom line is that - like al_yrpal - LCHF appears not to work for me. If it works for you, great, but please don't push it further than the evidence supports.