Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
David9694
Posts: 145
Joined: 10 Feb 2018, 8:42am

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby David9694 » 13 Oct 2018, 9:29am

I’ve got a genuine Raleigh Record Ace 1980 frameset.

There’s a colour match place in Portsmouth who hopefully will be able to supply some Ice Green as I think the shade is called. On my Record Ace Replica, I used Renault Ascot Green - not a million miles off, but decidedly too green.

The frame has got a dent and creasing on the underside of the downtube about mid-way that I’d be interested in trying to improve and fill. I’m interested in steel balls and a slug, Brucey, but I don’t quite follow how this idea works and I’m not sure what a slug looks like! I don’t see how you can push anything solid up the tube. The Sheldon Brown device looks like an April Fool to me.

There is a woodwork place locally that if I ever had some weekday time would make me a hardwood frame blocks set if I did but have a bench vice of my own. Nothing on EBay at the moment I could find, so I’m reviving this 2014 thread to see if there are any fresh ideas.


Spa Audax, Genesis Equibrium respray, Breamore Firefly (formerly Condor), Breamore Beacon (formerly Harry Quinn), Raleigh Record Ace replica, Viner Super Professional, Breamore Gravel (was MB Dronfield); frames: John Atkins respray, two more Braemores, another Viner

landsurfer
Posts: 3921
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby landsurfer » 13 Oct 2018, 9:46am

Mick F wrote:I have a small dent in the top tube about half way along. It's been there years, and happened as a result of Bike falling over.
I cannot get Sheldon's thingy into my top tube because it's blanked off at either end.

Dent?
Who cares?
I certainly don't.


My Spa Steel tourer was blown over 4 days after picking it up.
When i stopped crying i called John at Spa and sent some pics and measurements of the dent.
His sage advice ?

"Fill it with Blutack and put a sticker over it." !

Frankly i haven't bothered doing anything ...the paints not marked ... most of my bikes end up dented eventually and it causes me no issues...the reserve factor of cycle tubes is high enough.
SPA Steel Touring Superbike. JAMIS Steel Framed Wonderthing.

David9694
Posts: 145
Joined: 10 Feb 2018, 8:42am

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby David9694 » 13 Oct 2018, 10:03am

Sorry to hear that.

I’ve chipped and scratched paintwork many times before, but i’m clearly not “rad” enough to ever have dented a frame. I found Polyfilla worked for a minor dent with no upward creasing for a home re spray.

Norman H
Posts: 747
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 4:39pm

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby Norman H » 13 Oct 2018, 10:27am

Do you know how the damage was sustained?

Creasing on the underside of the downtube suggests some kind of frontal impact, although the damage is usually closer to the head tube.

It might be worth examining the forks for other signs of impact, or indeed if they are the original forks.

David9694
Posts: 145
Joined: 10 Feb 2018, 8:42am

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby David9694 » 13 Oct 2018, 11:46am

https://www.flickr.com/gp/100933962@N06/G5D67p

Not sure if the above Flickr link will either work, or take you to our wedding pictures! I’ve never managed to get a picture to go on here.

I don’t know how the dent was acquired - it looks like / best guess the bike hit a stone. The dent is quite uneven. It’s about one crank’s length up from the bb. The rust suggests it happened a while ago and I don’t see any evidence of wider damage.

Brucey
Posts: 31159
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby Brucey » 13 Oct 2018, 12:13pm

in the down tube you can usually introduce something via the BB shell (depending how the tubes are mitred). However it may not work perfectly because the tube is likely butted and what is a tight fit at the entry may be a rattling fit higher up because the ID of the tube changes.

You can do quite a lot from the outside of the tube if you are clever/lucky. So I'd try that if I was going to try anything.

BTW framebuilders can fill small dents with brass and this makes for a permanent repair. The frame will probably work Ok without anything being done but it does make a finished respray that bit better.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David9694
Posts: 145
Joined: 10 Feb 2018, 8:42am

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby David9694 » 4 Nov 2018, 6:08pm

The paint code for a Raleigh Record Ace early 80s is M4 34900. Got that, Mr Google? M4 34900 Raleigh Record Ace. OK that’s my bit for posterity done.

Not sure if that’s for Arctic Green or Fern Green - you see both in catalogues from the time. In some pictures, the bike looks greenery, on others more goldey - 34900 is more towards gold.

I had a lump of wood lying around, so I bought a 28mm auger bit, ran it through, and then sawed it in two. I won’t say “half” because I’m no craftsman. I think this sort of thing needs a proper workshop, with a mounted drill and bandsaw, and probably a much harder wood. Clamping it in my B&D workmate, I had a go at rolling it, but not sure it made a huge difference.

I used a fine automative filler and got a reasonable result.

Decals wise, the set from Bicycle Decals .net used on my first (replica) attempt was a bit disappointing as the gold bits were in fact mustard yellow. Hoping Bicycle Stickers .co.uk can do something, but there’s always H Lloyd.

Mike_Ayling
Posts: 57
Joined: 25 Sep 2017, 3:02am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby Mike_Ayling » 4 Nov 2018, 10:52pm

David9694 wrote:. The Sheldon Brown device looks like an April Fool to me.



It is!

Mike

AndyA
Posts: 334
Joined: 21 Mar 2009, 9:16pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby AndyA » 6 Nov 2018, 10:45am

For future hunters of Paragon tube blocks - Ceeway do stock them and they are great for removing dents. Grease the tube/block, much less paint damage that way

drossall
Posts: 4215
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby drossall » 9 Nov 2018, 11:56pm

On the strength of this thread, I've enquired to Ceeway, and got a helpful response. However, I don't want to damage my paint. I've got a 1983 Holdsworth Mistral in very nice condition, except for a slight and non-structural dent in the top tube. I'd like to remove it entirely for cosmetic reasons, but I want to keep the original paint.

In the light of AndyA's comment, I'm not so sure about using metal blocks, even with grease. And I don't really have the set-up to make wooden blocks. Can anyone share some experience of the effects on paint?

And we've had one colour identified already. My bike is the very nice bronze that they used to do - I think they called it sable brown pearl. Anyone know how you can colour match that?

tim-b
Posts: 849
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby tim-b » 10 Nov 2018, 5:46am

Hi
Anyone know how you can colour match that?

Find a bodyshop with something like this (link)
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

fastpedaller
Posts: 1594
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby fastpedaller » 10 Nov 2018, 2:12pm

drossall wrote: However, I don't want to damage my paint. I've got a 1983 Holdsworth Mistral in very nice condition, except for a slight and non-structural dent in the top tube. I'd like to remove it entirely for cosmetic reasons, but I want to keep the original paint.


But surely the paint's already damaged (even if not yes visible) - could you get a coloured decal 'band' to stick over it once the dent is removed?

drossall
Posts: 4215
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby drossall » 10 Nov 2018, 3:11pm

No, it's not, as far as I'm aware, although I see what you're getting at. I'll recheck it.

drossall
Posts: 4215
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby drossall » 11 Nov 2018, 10:43pm

Here's my small dent. You can see that, while I've had to put on some paint that's a poor match elsewhere, the paint on the dent is OK. So I don't want to end up with a ring of damaged paint where the block was.

Image

Image

Brucey
Posts: 31159
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Rolling out a dent, need tube blocks

Postby Brucey » 11 Nov 2018, 11:52pm

do keep an eye on it but I don't think that dent is worth worrying much about and I don't think it will come out of the tube anyway, even with good blocks. If you did miraculously manage to work some of the dent out, the chances of the paint being intact thereabouts are virtually nil.

Your choices are, I think,

a) live with it or

b) put a sticker or something over the top of it or

c) have the dent filled and the tube/frame resprayed.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~