Shimergo help with 10 speed

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
jctc
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Location: Midlands

Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby jctc » 2 May 2014, 10:04pm

Would be very grateful if anyone could advise me regarding shimano spacing on a campag 10 speed cassette,I have enough shimano 10 speed spacers for the job but not sure if there's enough space with the different thickness of the cogs,wishing to use the campag cogs.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby Brucey » 2 May 2014, 10:31pm

the campag spacers are a funny shape and they vary in width, too. On average (apart from the 1-2 spacer) the campag spacers are ~0.08mm thicker than the shimano ones (which are 2.35mm), even though the campag cluster is 1.6mm wider . The reason for the discrepancy is that the shimano sprockets are 1.6mm wide vs 1.7 for campag. More here;

http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html#variable

The campag #1 sprocket is dished and uses a thinner spacer. If you keep this spacer and replace the others (where possible) you can make a slimmer cassette, but I don't think you can win back quite enough this way;

Image

you need to keep spacer P (1.6mm) and the O (2.55mm) /N (2.4mm) type should be replaced with others of that profile. Spacer O is there because (I think) there is a known mismatch in the sprocket ramp patterns (and/or an uneven cable pull) in the campag setup. If you are using a shimano STI and mech then the shift pulls are evenly spaced, so you can (maybe) ditch the O spacer and gain 0.2mm this way. So what else can you easily do? Well you can replace the Q type (2.4mm) with shimano spacers which nets 0.05mm per spacer, which still isn't enough.

I think that you can (by whittling down some spacers and/or adding shims to pack out further P type spacers) fudge it to make it shimano spaced, and if you succeed you will likely need another spacer to make the cassette snug on the freehub body. And I'm sure it will work OK.

But.. I think there is an easier way.... if you tweak the cable mount on the shimano rear mech (towards the left pivot on the outer side plate by about a millimetre) then you will increase the mech throw per unit cable pull, and this will make the shimano mech work OK on a standard campag cassette. If you want to get fancy, it might be worth trading the 'O' spacer for an 'N' spacer but it might well be just fine without.

hth

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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cycleruk
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Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby cycleruk » 3 May 2014, 1:34pm

Have you tried it as it is?
The overall out-of-line in theory is 1.8mm difference, (0.2mm / sprocket).
You may have to adjust the derailleur stops to allow the slight extra width.
If set up on a middle sprocket then it's less than 1mm out at each end.

I have done it the other way ie: Shimano wheel in Campag' set-up and worked fine.

Some info' here:-
http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/ ... s/shimergo
There's no such thing as a tailwind.
It's either a headwind, or you're going well.

jctc
Posts: 46
Joined: 30 Jul 2009, 11:45am
Location: Midlands

Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby jctc » 3 May 2014, 3:25pm

Thanks so much for all your time on this,will have a play around this week,just bought a sram x5 10 speed mtb shifter anyone had any experience with this,do I need to tweak anything if I'm just running it with everything else shimano.CHEERS

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Mick F
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Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby Mick F » 3 May 2014, 3:39pm

Brucey:
That document isn't necessarily correct.
The OP hasn't told us which Campag 10sp cassette he has, though I am splitting hairs. :wink:

My 13-29 Centaur had different spacing to your diagram.
This one was mine:
Screen shot 2014-05-03 at 15.35.56.png


This is the one I have now:
Screen shot 2014-05-03 at 15.36.12.png


If you go back in time, you get this one, basically like the one you showed:
Screen shot 2014-05-03 at 15.40.51.png
Mick F. Cornwall

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby Brucey » 3 May 2014, 6:51pm

jctc wrote:Thanks so much for all your time on this,will have a play around this week,just bought a sram x5 10 speed mtb shifter anyone had any experience with this,do I need to tweak anything if I'm just running it with everything else shimano.CHEERS


yes, you need to buy a SRAM X-series rear mech (which has a completely different pull to anything else) and then the spacing will still be out by 1.8mm over the full width of a campag 10s block; SRAM 10s cassette spacing is like shimano 10s.

The SRAM X-series shifters have a 1:1 actuation ratio, which (in a nutshell) means they pull ~x2 as much cable per shift as shimano road stuff and are still different to Shimano 10s MTB stuff (dyna sys).

Some info on Dyna sys and other systems here;

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/Maintenance_and_Repair/Gear-changing_Dimensions

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jctc
Posts: 46
Joined: 30 Jul 2009, 11:45am
Location: Midlands

Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby jctc » 9 May 2014, 10:06pm

I wasn't aware of the differences between sram and shimano pulling,as I now have two sram 10 speed shifters I'd appreciate any tips on running these with shimano cassettes,could I change the spacers and perhaps end up with 9 gears?

Brucey
Posts: 36483
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Shimergo help with 10 speed

Postby Brucey » 9 May 2014, 10:49pm

If the discrepancy were very small maybe it could work but it isn't, is it? You have shimano road mechs there, right?

If so, without something to correct the cable pull of the SRAM shifter vs the shimano mech you are not going to get enough adjustment that way. Maybe if you spaced out six or seven cogs (from ten) to wider than old six speed, maybe...?

Your realistic options are

1) get a shift mate

2) get sram rear mechs

Your shimano 10s cassettes have the correct spacing for sram 10s, you just have a mismatch between the shifter and the mech.

If you have a shimano road rear mech then it is basically a non starter with a sram shifter, and even if you have a dyna sys rear mech then the discrepancy is still very large; it is about as big as the difference between campag and shimano road stuff IIRC.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~