Saddle setback - what do you run

[samsbike]

I'd be interested to know how you measure saddle setback in a way that allows meaningful comparisons with other bike/saddle combinations.

I dont think you can. However, I was more after the relativity between setback and inside leg as I was wondering whether my 9cm was too much etc.

I think I am running it OK at 9cm.

I have checked the pbh and its still there at 89cm. I am going to try and measure the other measurements per the link given above (thanks julianm) and see what pops out. I know my saddle to bar difference is a lot less at around 55 (and again is not so meaningful as it would depend on the type of bars you are running_ - and I run compacts with as short as possible ramps.

[reohn2]

I'd be interested to know how you measure saddle setback in a way that allows meaningful comparisons with other bike/saddle combinations.

Saddle setback is measured with the bike on a level surface and a plumbline from the nose of the saddle,pumbline to BB axle centre measured level is setback.
Of course setback alone is irrelevant without measuring saddle height first, which is governed by inside leg length ie;with the rider sat with their pelvis level on the saddle and heel (wearing shoes with a slight heel,no stilettos ) on the pedal at BDC(crank in line with the seatube).With the ball of the foot on the pedal spindle the knee should be ever so slightly bent,both legs should be measured and saddle set to the shortest leg or possibly halved between the two if the difference slight,ie <10mm.
But before finding correct height correct saddle tilt should be found,which is usually level or slightly nose up.

[531colin]

I'd be interested to know how you measure saddle setback in a way that allows meaningful comparisons with other bike/saddle combinations.

Theres nothing that allows "meaningful" comparisons between a sit up and beg roadster and a low profile time trial bike, if that's what you mean.
However, if I had 2 drop bar tourers with different saddles, I would just set them up to KOPS (or whatever you ride) sitting on each saddle where I sit when riding.
(as it happens, all mine are on B17 narrow)

[RonK]

Both good answers, but of no value in answering Sam's "how long is a piece of string" question.

[reohn2]

Both good answers, but of no value in answering Sam's "how long is a piece of string" question.

None at all but it does give a starting point for saddle position and it's from that point the tuning and tweaking can begin to find optimum.

[ANTONISH]

I definitely agree that getting the saddle position right is the correct starting point.
Bernard Hinault produced a book - I think it was "Cycle Racing" . There is a substantial amount about positioning (he shows how his position was gradually changed). There is a great deal of "scientific" information on how to obtain the optimum position from body dimensions. I think it has been based on the Loughborough study. If you have a bit of free time and at a loose end - with someone to take the measurements it may amuse you to see what it comes up with .
Judging by the results of some bike fit comparisons (was it in cycle?), you could save a few pounds and do no worse.
Of course Hinault's results give an "ideal" road racing position, but it's not a bad starting point - particularly for saddle position.
With the many hours racing cyclists spend racing and training over the years they have to have something physically sustainable.
Obviously most of us don't have the need (or the flexibility ) to achieve a full racing position.

[mrjemm]

I'd be interested to know how you measure saddle setback in a way that allows meaningful comparisons with other bike/saddle combinations.

Saddle setback is measured with the bike on a level surface and a plumbline from the nose of the saddle,pumbline to BB axle centre measured level is setback.
Of course setback alone is irrelevant without measuring saddle height first, which is governed by inside leg length ie;with the rider sat with their pelvis level on the saddle and heel (wearing shoes with a slight heel,no stilettos ) on the pedal at BDC(crank in line with the seatube).With the ball of the foot on the pedal spindle the knee should be ever so slightly bent,both legs should be measured and saddle set to the shortest leg or possibly halved between the two if the difference slight,ie <10mm.
But before finding correct height correct saddle tilt should be found,which is usually level or slightly nose up.

I can't see how measuring a saddle like this wouldn't be arbitary, where saddles can be of differing lengths, and different folk sit differently on different saddles, etc. Though of course, I cannot see a better way of doing it! I've been shown to get a rough estimate by getting an elbow against the saddle nose, where fingertips 'should' be on the bars... Or was that headset? Anyway, we use differing stem lengths and bar types/dimensions too, so it would all be very vague as I see, yet some folk refer to rather precise figures for these measurements.

Think I've commented before how in the US there is quite a strong belief that saddles should be tilted back, particularly Brooks, and their ilk- owner of a seemingly well-respected shop in Seattle was really quite forthright about Madame's being pretty much level. Strangely didn't comment on mine. Which was nigh on level (though being a certain model of Salsa seatpost, would not get quite there with that Vaya's seat tube angle.

I am constantly fiddling with my saddle height, setback and angle. One day I'll get there...

Just saw your reply to RonK, R2. Written while I composed my tome. And with my above thought, I wonder just how much tweaking some need. As I say, I tweak a lot, and there're just so many variables, it almost feels like an eternal challenge. Seems Sam is finding the same. I certainly enjoy the process though.

[Dynamite_funk]

FYI I run 9.5cm set back on a Rolls saddle

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

FYI I run 9.5cm set back on a Rolls saddle

How did you arrive at that position

[Dynamite_funk]

KOPS through a bike fit at York cycle works, I must admit I was a bit unnerved when he started doing it. I am well aware of how this method is not considered to have limited biomechanical accuracy to it but it seems to be 'working' at the moment. May look at the Seve Hogg method at some point in the future.

(Saddle height is 79.5cm with 172.5 cranks with seat tip to bar being 57.5cm, seat tip to levers 68cm)

[531colin]

You can, of course, manufacture as many difficulties and uncertainties as you have psychological need for, but its really not that complicated.
I would always start at KOPS, which answers this question......

I'd be interested to know how you measure saddle setback in a way that allows meaningful comparisons with other bike/saddle combinations.

Set up KOPS, ride it for a few good, long days and get used to it, then try 10mm either side of KOPS and see how you get on.....I don't understand why folk need somebody to tell them what their position should be.....won't your own body tell you that?
KOPS isn't a magic bullet, but it has 2 strengths.....you can always find it again, and its independent of saddle shape, seat angle, and all that stuff. There is no point in rubbishing KOPS if you have nothing simple to put in its place.
Once the saddle is set about right, you can start on bar position.

Disclaimer....I have knowledge only of "touring" on drop bar bikes, although to me "touring" is a fairly broad church.
Yesterday, 115 miles in about 12 1/2 hours, including Tan Hill, Buttertubs, and Grinton Moor. I'm 67 this month, that's a long day to me now. I was tired at the end, but not broken.....no sore shoulders, no aches and pains. No stiffness this morning, so I reckon my position isn't bad.
I'm just back from Lon Las Cymru, we did about 50 miles a day with B&B luggage........its a wonderful route if, like me, you like minor roads and scenery.
Different bikes for the 2 trips, yesterday I was on a light-ish tourer (Orbit Gold Medal) for the Welsh trip I chose my "dreadnought" ....a Spa roughstuff bike, because its a joy in the hills. Its also the bike I use for High Street, High Cup Nick, and tracks like that. But the riding position is as close as I can get it to identical.

[samsbike]

Ron but it helps understand that my current 9cm isnt freakish. Also that a variation +/- from KOPS isnt unheard of.

[Trigger]

I don't understand why folk need somebody to tell them what their position should be.....won't your own body tell you that?

Maybe a lot of people (me being one) can't translate what their body is telling them into bike adjustments. In the past I've really struggled even trying to tell what is hurting me as I can't pin point the exact area of discomfort.

[Mick F]

............. I can't pin point the exact area of discomfort.

I understand this.

I had a thread on here ages ago about aches and pains, and now my thread about hexagonal decking. I ache and I'm tired.
Give me a manual job in the garden or doing decking or repairing a roof, and I ache terribly - back, arms, neck - even after only three or four hours work. Put me on a bike, and I can ride 50miles non-stop without a problem, but if I ride double that, I'm knackered.

It must be something to do with tolerance and/or not being used to the specific exercise. You don't have to blame the bike.

[reohn2]

You can, of course, manufacture as many difficulties and uncertainties as you have psychological need for, but its really not that complicated.
I would always start at KOPS, which answers this question......

I'd be interested to know how you measure saddle setback in a way that allows meaningful comparisons with other bike/saddle combinations.

Set up KOPS, ride it for a few good, long days and get used to it, then try 10mm either side of KOPS and see how you get on.....I don't understand why folk need somebody to tell them what their position should be.....won't your own body tell you that?
KOPS isn't a magic bullet, but it has 2 strengths.....you can always find it again, and its independent of saddle shape, seat angle, and all that stuff. There is no point in rubbishing KOPS if you have nothing simple to put in its place.

Spot on!
It's the universal starting point,the datum to refer back to when the tweaking(if needs be) starts.

Once the saddle is set about right, you can start on bar position.

Yes,then and only then IMO.