Accident Insurance?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
jonnyollet
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Accident Insurance?

Postby jonnyollet » 19 Aug 2014, 1:47pm

Hi All,

I have recently started and I have a hypothetical question with regards to accidents. I'd like to know the answer in case this happens to me and I am in this situation.

If I have an accident and it is quite obviously my fault (e.g. I ride into the back of a stopped car at a red light), what is the procedure?
I guess I can give him my name and contact details, but will his insurance pick up the bill? Or will they bill me directly? (I guess some car repairs can be quite expensive).
If I don’t pay, will it be a visit to the small claims court?

If I take out cycle insurance, will they cover me for this (in a similar way to how car insurance works)? Or is it covered under my house insurance?

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I can’t seem to find any answers where it was the cyclist’s fault.

Thanks, jonnyollet

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Si
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby Si » 19 Aug 2014, 2:20pm

Welcome to the forum.

If you have such a crash (not "Accident" as accidents are unavoidable :lol: ) then you need to exchange details with the other party just as you would with a two car crash.
If it is found to be your fault then you will be billed for repairs by the other party's insurer. If you are not insured then it'll come out of your pocket.

However, if you are a member of the CTC you have 3rd party insurance as part of your membership - this will pay the costs of repairs, injury compensation, etc to the other party, and the CTC insurers will handle the case for you.

However, if you crash with no one else involved and it is no one else's fault but yours then the 3rd party insurance will not pay to fix your bike etc - you'd need fully comp insurance for that.

pete75
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby pete75 » 19 Aug 2014, 3:01pm

Si wrote:Welcome to the forum.

If you have such a crash (not "Accident" as accidents are unavoidable :lol: ) then you need to exchange details with the other party just as you would with a two car crash.
If it is found to be your fault then you will be billed for repairs by the other party's insurer. If you are not insured then it'll come out of your pocket.



No.
Motorists are under a legal obligation to give contact details but but cyclists are not.

Amongst other things the OED defines an accident thus :-

"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury" and "A crash involving road or other vehicles".

Bicycler
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby Bicycler » 19 Aug 2014, 3:45pm

Si sums it up quite well. It is possible that insurance may be provided under your home insurance policy so it may be worth checking that. CTC (or British Cycling) membership is a very affordable way of getting third party cover. For me the membership pays for itself in terms of peace of mind. If you don't have insurance then yes you are liable for any damage you cause and potentially you could be taken to court in order to obtain that money. The odds of that happening may be small but it's a nasty worry to have lurking in the back of your mind.

thirdcrank
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Aug 2014, 4:00pm

Remember that realistically, in any crash involving damage to a car, you as a cyclist are likely to come off worse and your own injuries are likely to more highly valued by the legal system than any damage to a car. This means that the lack of any obligation as a cyclist to exchange details may count for little if you are scraped up, dead or alive from the floor, but it also means that you will usually have plenty to gain from an orderly exchange of details.

You might, of course, be alleged to be responsible for a car driver swerving to avoid you leading to mayhem. It's been pointed out to me by somebody on here (SimonL6?) that third party cover (eg as provided in the CTC membership) would not only extend to the cases where you had obviously caused a crash, but those where you had a strong claim for compo because of the bad driving of somebody else - possibly a substantial amount - and the other side made a counter-claim alleging negligence by you. ie this type of cover doesn't just pay up when you are to blame but defends you if the insurer thinks you were not to blame.

One of the advantages of CTC membership and presumably similar organisations is that a combination of the third party cover and the Collective Conditional Fee Agreement (AKA the Accident Claims Service) is that together they cover you both ways. There are no doubt other ways to achieve this but this is a simple off-the-peg solution.

pete75
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby pete75 » 19 Aug 2014, 4:48pm

thirdcrank wrote:Remember that realistically, in any crash involving damage to a car, you as a cyclist are likely to come off worse and your own injuries are likely to more highly valued by the legal system than any damage to a car. This means that the lack of any obligation as a cyclist to exchange details may count for little if you are scraped up, dead or alive from the floor, but it also means that you will usually have plenty to gain from an orderly exchange of details.



But not in the case the OP refers to - where the accident is quite obviously his fault. I'd guess he means where a vehicle in front has to make an emergency stop and through inattention or riding too close or whatever he runs into the back of it.

As an aside most household insurance policies , certainly any that are acceptable to a building society , cover against quite substantial third party claims. The reason being that otherwise a successful claim against you could lead to forfeiture of your property leaving the building society with no security for your mortgage.

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Si
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby Si » 19 Aug 2014, 4:58pm

pete75 wrote:
Si wrote:Welcome to the forum.

If you have such a crash (not "Accident" as accidents are unavoidable :lol: ) then you need to exchange details with the other party just as you would with a two car crash.
If it is found to be your fault then you will be billed for repairs by the other party's insurer. If you are not insured then it'll come out of your pocket.



No.
Motorists are under a legal obligation to give contact details but but cyclists are not.

Amongst other things the OED defines an accident thus :-

"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury" and "A crash involving road or other vehicles".


It's a sad world where we take no responsibility for the damage we do to others.

pete75
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby pete75 » 19 Aug 2014, 5:04pm

Si wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Si wrote:Welcome to the forum.

If you have such a crash (not "Accident" as accidents are unavoidable :lol: ) then y
If it is found to be your fault then you will be billed for repairs by the other party's insurer. If you are not insured then it'll come out of your pocket.



No.
Motorists are under a legal obligation to give contact details but but cyclists are not.

Amongst other things the OED defines an accident thus :-

"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury" and "A crash involving road or other vehicles".


It's a sad world where we take no responsibility for the damage we do to others.


I'm not saying people shouldn't give details just that the "need to exchange details with the other party just as you would with a two car crash." doesn't exist.

thirdcrank
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Aug 2014, 5:29pm

When I read si's original reply, I nearly pointed out that AFAIK any obligation to exchange details on the part of a cyclist is only a moral one, but I bit my keyboard, so to speak. Had the OP specifically asked if he would be entitled to scarper after an accident I'd have posted "Yes," although if a rider who didn't stop was subsequently traced, I wonder how it might be viewed by a court. :? It might not do much for someone's credibility as a witness and I believe there's a general duty in civil cases to act reasonably. When I did eventually post, I just tried to offer a wider perspective. In this context, it may be worth a mention to anybody of the "they can't touch you for it" tendency that the police have a power to require a cyclist suspected of an offence (due care in a crash like this) to give their name and address, backed up with a power of arrest.

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Si
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby Si » 19 Aug 2014, 7:07pm

pete75 wrote:I'm not saying people shouldn't give details just that the "need to exchange details with the other party just as you would with a two car crash." doesn't exist.


I was not accusing you of such.

Psamathe
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby Psamathe » 19 Aug 2014, 8:34pm

Si wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Si wrote:Welcome to the forum.

If you have such a crash (not "Accident" as accidents are unavoidable :lol: ) then y
If it is found to be your fault then you will be billed for repairs by the other party's insurer. If you are not insured then it'll come out of your pocket.



No.
Motorists are under a legal obligation to give contact details but but cyclists are not.

Amongst other things the OED defines an accident thus :-

"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury" and "A crash involving road or other vehicles".

It's a sad world where we take no responsibility for the damage we do to others.

(I'm probably being daft so sorry but), does a bike not count as a vehicle when travelling on the road ? I had understood cyclists had the right to travel on (most) roads as they are vehicles and are subject to the various Highway Code rules and regulations based on being a vehicle (at least appropriate ones).

Ian

thirdcrank
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Aug 2014, 9:24pm

Psamathe wrote: ... (I'm probably being daft so sorry but), does a bike not count as a vehicle when travelling on the road ? I had understood cyclists had the right to travel on (most) roads as they are vehicles and are subject to the various Highway Code rules and regulations based on being a vehicle (at least appropriate ones). ...


A pedal cycle is a vehicle (settled by Ellis v Nott Bower) but it is not a mechanically propelled vehicle for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (formerly "motor vehicle.")

viewtopic.php?p=34561#p34561

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170
Last edited by thirdcrank on 19 Aug 2014, 9:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

irc
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby irc » 19 Aug 2014, 9:28pm

TC beat me to it.

Some laws apply only to motor vehicles/mech prop vehicles. Another one is speeding on most roads. Does not apply to bikes. I have read that some Royal parks have local speeding bylaws that cover bicycles though.

pete75
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby pete75 » 20 Aug 2014, 8:14am

irc wrote:TC beat me to it.

Some laws apply only to motor vehicles/mech prop vehicles. Another one is speeding on most roads. Does not apply to bikes. I have read that some Royal parks have local speeding bylaws that cover bicycles though.


Yes I've heard that. Seems an odd law to apply when bikes aren't obliged to have any sort of speed measuring device.

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dkmwt
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Re: Accident Insurance?

Postby dkmwt » 25 Aug 2014, 11:01pm

I had an argument with a guy at work a few years ago about this very subject. I said that as my ICE trike is a named item I had full cover with my house insurance, he insisted that I didn't. When I got home I phoned my insurers to ask this question. The person that I spoke to couldn't answer right away so they went to find out. The answer came back a very positive yes. As it is a named item it has full cover to the same level as a car driver, if not better as it's new for old cover.

The QnT 26 with front suspension and hydraulic front disks is covered for £4000 and the B1 is covered for £2000.
Cheers, Donald
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ICE B1 34/50 F Capreo 9/32 R.
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