What's the difference between these two lights?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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horizon
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What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby horizon » 6 Nov 2014, 10:39pm

It's that time of year to look at lights. Here are two. What's the difference?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/exposure-maxx-d ... 1&curr=GBP

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Busch-Muller- ... 54135d4e30

I was looking at:

Lumens (i.e. how much light do you get)
Lux (i.e. how much light do you get)
Running time
Battery type

LIGHT ONE: 2400 lumens for 2 hours. Charging time not known. Li-Ion battery.
LIGHT TWO: 40 lux for 5 hours with 5 hours charging time. 4 x AA batteries

The first light is ten times the price of the second one.

PS This link was helpful:

http://gemini-lights.com/explore/lux-and-lumens
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Vantage
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby Vantage » 6 Nov 2014, 11:50pm

No idea but I bought a (deeeeeep breath) B&M Cyo IQ Premium T Senso Plus 80 Lux light that lights up the trail in front of me without blinding anyone else and never have to worry about batteries or charging again :)
Bill


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Bicycler
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby Bicycler » 6 Nov 2014, 11:53pm

The difference? one's a bicycle headlight the other a "race weapon" :shock:

By the way, there is a new 80 Lux version of the IQ called the IXON IQ Premium (80 lux, 5hrs full power output, 5 hours charging, 4 AAs) and it's available for about £3 more than the one in your Ebay listing: http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/ixon ... amp-139355

EDIT: The IXON IQ Premium is the battery version of the Cyo Premium which Vantage is referring to.

reohn2
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Nov 2014, 12:04am

Bicycler wrote:The difference? one's a bicycle headlight the other a "race weapon" :shock:

By the way, there is a new 80 Lux version of the IQ called the IXON IQ Premium (80 lux, 5hrs full power output, 5 hours charging, 4 AAs) and it's available for about £3 more than the one in your Ebay listing: http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/ixon ... amp-139355

EDIT: The IXON IQ Premium is the battery version of the Cyo Premium which Vantage is referring to.


According to the link the batteries and charger aren't included in the price :?
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Bicycler
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby Bicycler » 7 Nov 2014, 12:13am

True but neither are they in Horizon's original link; we need to compare like with like. You pay quite a bit more for the version with batteries/charger included. The required batteries are standard NIMH Rechargeable AA (a big plus IMHO) and I would have thought most of us have them and an AA battery charger - the ones we have are probably as good or better quality than the ones which come bundled with the light.

tim-b
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby tim-b » 7 Nov 2014, 6:59am

Hi

From a quick look you can't really compare them; lux and lumens are two different units that you can't compare unless you know the distance and area of the light cast...one lux is one lumen per square metre

For road use you might prefer a more concentrated beam, i.e. not dazzling to others, off-road you might prefer a larger spread to see low tree branches as well as tree roots. If you compared these two imaginary lights of the same lumen value at a given distance, the more concentrated beam will appear brighter within its smaller area (greater lux). The wider beam will show you more of what's around you (at a smaller lux value)

This site gives examples of the differences that you might see http://www.torchythebatteryboy.com/p/bike-light-database.html

Regards
tim-b
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horizon
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby horizon » 7 Nov 2014, 10:19am

tim-b wrote:Hi

From a quick look you can't really compare them; lux and lumens are two different units that you can't compare unless you know the distance and area of the light cast...one lux is one lumen per square metre



tim-b: surely you have to be able to compare them. If there is no discernable difference (before purchase), how can anyone decide to shell out £300 for a light that none of us here can tell is any better than one at one tenth of the price?

I do take your point about lux and lumens - that's critical. But we are still only guessing which has what light where. And it's beyond comprehension that two well considered manufacturers (and their retailers) make no effort to makea comparison possible. Is there something about bike lights that some lights can only be measured in lumens and others only in lux? Why cannot we have the figures for both?

PS Good link BTW! Thanks :) .
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

reohn2
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Nov 2014, 10:24am

Bicycler wrote:True but neither are they in Horizon's original link; we need to compare like with like. You pay quite a bit more for the version with batteries/charger included. The required batteries are standard NIMH Rechargeable AA (a big plus IMHO) and I would have thought most of us have them and an AA battery charger - the ones we have are probably as good or better quality than the ones which come bundled with the light.


Point taken.
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beardy
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby beardy » 7 Nov 2014, 10:59am

And it's beyond comprehension that two well considered manufacturers (and their retailers) make no effort to makea comparison possible


The way that you compare can illuminate the light's strong points. B&M would like to focus your attention on the beam pattern and you having the light where you want it. This can be highlighted by using the Lux figures.
They would like to keep the Lumens in the shade because otherwise they would be in the shadow of lights that throw out much more light but without the refinement of it being where you need it.

Most consumers would be swayed by a big number, which is why some other companies advertise in terms of milliCandela.

It is a bit hard to compare the lights as I only have one of them, the B&M Ixon.
As an aside if you get one of the later manufactured models (as recent as the Premiums) they are higher power than the older ones. The box still says 40Lux but inside the leaflet it is up to 50Lux, you can recognise them as they come with the new style clamp and if you look at the LED it is a tiny 2mm compared to the old which is about 6mm.

A perfectly good lamp for most riding, it may be lower power than the Exposure but it means much more night time riding for the same weight. That is where I think the Ixon IQ really scores the best balance of usable light, weight, burn time and now price as well.
If I was to just have the one it would be the Premium as it just seems to put the light where you need it on dark, twisty lanes.

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gaz
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby gaz » 7 Nov 2014, 11:15am

I'm not sure if horizon is looking to invest in some new lighting to replace his dual SMART set up.

This winter I am using a Philips 80Lux (220 Lumen claimed; 270 Lumen measured) which quite simply outshines anything I've used before without blinding anyone else in the process.

My Philips 40Lux by comparison seems barely adequate based on driveway testing, I'll give it a proper go on my commute next week.
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beardy
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby beardy » 7 Nov 2014, 11:24am

I have to admit that I had not even looked at the Exposure before my previous post. :oops:

That Exposure is a whole "lighting experience" that would make you hunt out places to test its abilities.
It is a gadget geek's delight of a toy, the Ixon IQ in comparison is just an adequate bike light.

Elizabethsdad
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby Elizabethsdad » 7 Nov 2014, 12:22pm

I got Exposure lights after my previous cycle light come off it's plastic mounting and cracked it's plastic body when it hit the deck. It still worked most of the time but would switch off on occasions afterward so thought I had better get a more reliable replacement. At the time, a few years back now, Exposure seemed to me to be most solid lights on the market as well as being brighter than any light I had used previously. I got a Joystick for the helmet, then a Race Mk V for the bike then the Red eye rear lights that plug into the recharging ports. So far they have not let me down and give me a lot of confidence when riding at night. I now have a bike with a B&M dynamo light (Lumotec IQ) was is good for urban riding but not so much on rural unlit roads so I still use the helmet light to provide additional light-where-I-am-looking light. I guess long story short is they are both good makes of light just need to chose the model(s) that meet your requirements.

ANTONISH
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby ANTONISH » 7 Nov 2014, 12:37pm

The Lumen is a measure of light emitted.
Lux is the level of illumination at a point. 40 Lux represents 40 lumens per square metre. This will probably be the average illumination over the beam pattern at a specific distance and angle.
Neither description really gives a proper idea of how these lights will operate in practice. There is no indication of the beam spread angle.
If say, your 2400lm light gave a 1 square metre spread at a distance of 1 metre that would be (roughly) 2400lux. At 2m distance it would be 600 lux (inverse square law) I would guess that this light may well be superior.

tim-b
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby tim-b » 7 Nov 2014, 1:22pm

Hi

horizon said,
tim-b: surely you have to be able to compare them


You can, but IMHO you need more information. Imagine that you had never eaten either an apple or a pear (maybe you haven't :?: ). I could list kcal, fat, sugar, sodium, fibre, protein, vitamins, etc
Now you can compare apples with pears, but which one tastes best?
Which one do you prefer for carrying on a longer ride? (Apples every time for me, I end up with pear mush in my saddlebag)

Contact the companies and ask them for a bit more info http://www.use1.com/contact and http://www.bumm.de/metanavigation/kontakt.html (I couldn't find an English translation)

Regards
tim-b
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oldstrath
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Re: What's the difference between these two lights?

Postby oldstrath » 7 Nov 2014, 2:00pm

One is a road light (not to my mind an adequate light for unlit roads, but intended for roads), the other is an offroad light. Exposure do make a road light, the Strada, more usable than the Ixon, but more expensive, and allegedly more likely to annoy motorists.