Pitlocks

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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hondated
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby hondated » 12 Jan 2015, 2:22pm

mercalia wrote:As I have said a few time, my Dawes Horizon frame was smashed in SAINBURYS CAR PARK where I had gone shopping - less than an hour. Some one had tried to steal it found all the bits were locked down so smashed the frame with I think a trolly - probably kids as some where hanging around looking and scuttled off when they saw me upset. Pure spite "If I cant have it neither will you"

531 frame damaged.jpg


That's one photograph I wish that I hadn't looked at. Sorry to also read what had happened mercalia.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Jan 2015, 7:51pm

On the principle that they are a deterrent - yes they work
On the principle that they stop opportunistic thefts of wheels - yes they work
On the principle they mean the thief has to have a second set of tools - yes they work

However for a determined thief then as with all security they can fail

I know of one Rohloff owner who returned to find the bike fully secure, but the rear triangle itself bolt cropped to steal the wheel and hub

mercalia
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby mercalia » 12 Jan 2015, 10:14pm

Cunobelin wrote:On the principle that they are a deterrent - yes they work
On the principle that they stop opportunistic thefts of wheels - yes they work
On the principle they mean the thief has to have a second set of tools - yes they work

However for a determined thief then as with all security they can fail

I know of one Rohloff owner who returned to find the bike fully secure, but the rear triangle itself bolt cropped to steal the wheel and hub


shame no picture as this thread needs some down to earth cynicism as to what to expect?

climo
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby climo » 13 Jan 2015, 9:08am

mercalia wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:On the principle that they are a deterrent - yes they work
On the principle that they stop opportunistic thefts of wheels - yes they work
On the principle they mean the thief has to have a second set of tools - yes they work

However for a determined thief then as with all security they can fail

I know of one Rohloff owner who returned to find the bike fully secure, but the rear triangle itself bolt cropped to steal the wheel and hub


shame no picture as this thread needs some down to earth cynicism as to what to expect?


seems to be quite a bit of cynicism here already. :(

It seems that you have to be joined to your bike at all times to avoid theft or damage. If so what is the point of touring?

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Si
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby Si » 13 Jan 2015, 9:22am

I'm just wondering out loud.

I never secure my wheels with a lock as they are bolt on jobbies rather than QR. I'm quite happy to leave it unattended like this as long as the frame is locked. However, I've now got a dynohub which has a QR. So my first though was to look at pitlocks type things....but then I saw the price!

So, if I'm happy that a normal nut will stop an opportunist, would I be happy putting a jubilee clip around the QR lever and fork end, such that one needs a socket or screwdriver* to get the wheel out? Costs pennies and seems as secure as the bolts that I currently use. OK, a wheel with a dynohub might be more attractive to someone who knows what it is....but will the vast majority of have-a-go-crack-heads know?

*or to make it more secure, damage the screwdriver slot so tht only a socket will get it open.

Brucey
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby Brucey » 13 Jan 2015, 9:37am

climo wrote: It seems that you have to be joined to your bike at all times to avoid theft or damage. If so what is the point of touring?


realistically you can have a perfectly capable touring bike that isn't such a thief magnet, so for touring, I'd tend to choose one of those over a bike that is some kind of 'aspirational lifestyle statement' or something, especially if my tour involved leaving the bike places. The chances are that if you break it, lose it or whatever, it'll be cheaper to replace, too. For urban/commuting use, the same theory applies, with knobs on.

Life is a lot easier if you commute on a bike that other folk won't give a second look at, because it is far more likely to be there when you want to ride home again.

Where this approach falls down for touring is when you get to things like Rohloff hubs. These are often bought for very good practical reasons, and a few years ago these were not targeted by scumbags and therefore not liable to be swiped. But now that is all different.

Even so I'd argue that anyone claiming they 'need one' for their daily commute is probably a bit nuts (or has an extraordinary commute) and something else would do just as well at a fraction of the price.

So this might all sound deeply cynical. Maybe it is, too. But if the conclusion is deeply practical, who cares how you got there?

cheers
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mrjemm
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby mrjemm » 13 Jan 2015, 9:45am

But a jubilee clip can be easily prised open with that screwdriver that now cannot do it the easy way. Or the pliers matey boy brought with him to cut the nurse (?) locks some folk use could be used to snip the band.

Twenty something pounds to give a better defence for something costing a couple of hundred (?) seems not too pricey to me, but I use a Krypto D and hefty cable for my bike & wheels, though no dyno as yet.

Always wary though that my primary bike has S&S couplings, so have to consider where to pass the lock/cable to secure the rear triangle at least.

Personally I don't yet have pitlocks, but think they may be the way to go as lawyer lugs are making QR more hassle than previously on the front wheel.

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Re: Pitlocks

Postby Brucey » 13 Jan 2015, 9:54am

Si wrote: I never secure my wheels with a lock as they are bolt on jobbies rather than QR. I'm quite happy to leave it unattended like this as long as the frame is locked. However, I've now got a dynohub which has a QR...


If the hub generator is an expensive one then I'd lock it to the bike using a separate lock. And/or disguise it somehow.

I have a bike with a £60 hub generator and an IGH which would be considerably more expensive than that to replace. But my lock goes round the former not the latter, because the IGH is not one that is sought after. Most people wouldn't even know what it was in fact, and they would have to scrape off a layer of protective crud to get a good look at it.

cheers
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LollyKat
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby LollyKat » 13 Jan 2015, 10:50am

What is the 'undesirable' IGH? And has the protective layer of crud accumulated naturally or have you helped it, and if so, how? I've a reason for asking - thanks!

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foxyrider
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby foxyrider » 13 Jan 2015, 11:37am

I used Pitlock for a good few years on the tourer - excellent bit of kit. I've been using much lighter allen key skewers the last couple of years without issue but i'm off to Holland in the summer so the Pitlocks will likely be put back into service.

The spite damage thing seems to be a UK phenomena, i've not seen it elsewhere on my travels.

On tour i often leave the bike parked all day, doesn't mean i don't care about it but its the chance you take - go in a car and you are probably more susceptible to crime! Locking skewers of some sort are, for me, a sensible precaution as is securing your panniers when you leave the bike. Reasonable precaution is the thing, it would be upsetting and an inconvenience to lose the bike but not the end of the world.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

climo
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby climo » 13 Jan 2015, 1:05pm

Brucey wrote:
climo wrote: It seems that you have to be joined to your bike at all times to avoid theft or damage. If so what is the point of touring?


realistically you can have a perfectly capable touring bike that isn't such a thief magnet, so for touring, I'd tend to choose one of those over a bike that is some kind of 'aspirational lifestyle statement' or something, especially if my tour involved leaving the bike places. The chances are that if you break it, lose it or whatever, it'll be cheaper to replace, too. For urban/commuting use, the same theory applies, with knobs on.

Life is a lot easier if you commute on a bike that other folk won't give a second look at, because it is far more likely to be there when you want to ride home again.

Where this approach falls down for touring is when you get to things like Rohloff hubs. These are often bought for very good practical reasons, and a few years ago these were not targeted by scumbags and therefore not liable to be swiped. But now that is all different.

Even so I'd argue that anyone claiming they 'need one' for their daily commute is probably a bit nuts (or has an extraordinary commute) and something else would do just as well at a fraction of the price.

So this might all sound deeply cynical. Maybe it is, too. But if the conclusion is deeply practical, who cares how you got there?

cheers

Agree with you & others about commuting but surely with touring you should use the bike best suited to the job. This is likely to be your most expensive bike.
My query was basically what can be done to realistically secure the bike against a petty thief?
Some would say that you can't & that it always has to be in sight. How that can work in some circumstances I don't know. Others have a more laid back approach.
It's interesting.

Extrapolating from what I have read here & there it seems that a highly visible deterrent ie D locks & not pitlocks may convince the thief to pick an easier target. Bit like houses.

climo
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby climo » 13 Jan 2015, 1:06pm

foxyrider wrote:I used Pitlock for a good few years on the tourer - excellent bit of kit. I've been using much lighter allen key skewers the last couple of years without issue but i'm off to Holland in the summer so the Pitlocks will likely be put back into service.

The spite damage thing seems to be a UK phenomena, i've not seen it elsewhere on my travels.

On tour i often leave the bike parked all day, doesn't mean i don't care about it but its the chance you take - go in a car and you are probably more susceptible to crime! Locking skewers of some sort are, for me, a sensible precaution as is securing your panniers when you leave the bike. Reasonable precaution is the thing, it would be upsetting and an inconvenience to lose the bike but not the end of the world.


My thoughts exactly. How are you securing panniers?

manybikes
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby manybikes » 13 Jan 2015, 4:30pm

You must be joking if you think you can do that and rest easy and have a good time while away from the bikes unless locked up in an hotel room!
mercalia

When I tour I like to look at things. During a three week camping trip in Germany I was aware that a Bike Friday might attract attention but not leaving it out of sight would have defeated the purpose of the trip. At several tourist "hot spots" I searched for a busy place and I locked the bike to something solid, locked both wheels to the frame, and locked all 4 panniers to the bike (Ortleibs with the integral wire loops). Valuables were in my bar bag. My friend though it was overkill but he wanted to carry his panniers around with him but then decided they were too heavy. Although it wouldn't have stopped theft of pannier contents it did prevent casual grabbing of panniers and I considered that contents could easily be replaced. Maybe I was lucky but I did walk around with some sense of security. The extra weight of the locks was small in relation to the overall load.

geocycle
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby geocycle » 13 Jan 2015, 5:53pm

I have mixed feelings regarding not using your best bike. It makes sense of course in terms of reducing reducing risk but defeats the object of having a good bike. It comes down to being sensible with security and assessing risk. We all perceive value and loss in different ways just like when we buy a bike cost is relative to what we are prepared to pay. My bike has expensive hubs but I partly justify that by using it for every journey and enjoying using it as often as possible.

Brucey
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Re: Pitlocks

Postby Brucey » 13 Jan 2015, 6:45pm

LollyKat wrote:What is the 'undesirable' IGH? And has the protective layer of crud accumulated naturally or have you helped it, and if so, how? I've a reason for asking - thanks!


The 'undesirable IGH' is a SA five speed (actually a converted FW internal) inside a steel shell, with a home-brewed pushrod arrangement on the left side, and two control levers. Most crims will assume it is a three speed if they look at the right side and will just get confused if they look at the left side. The crud layer has developed naturally; it leaks a little of the lube I use inside it (I put in too much, in order to find out how much is 'too much'; now I know... :roll: ). You would get a similar layer using oil inside this kind of hub, which was the way I used it for years. If you were to scrape the crud off, it might say 'three speed AW' on the hubshell somewhere, which is nicely misleading too...

IME if you have a hub that leaks oil slightly, it gets a layer of crud but very rarely goes rusty (or furry if it is Aluminium) in the wintertime, which is a bonus.

It has occurred to me recently that someone might nick the rear wheel for the rim it has; Mavic Module E2 rims are starting to get slightly desirable now. So I'm avoiding cleaning that, too... :wink:

cheers
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