i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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531colin
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i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by 531colin »

Over on the "bikes and bits" board, I have been reading the thread about Garmin (510?), and doing my best to understand.
Paper maps have served me well for a very long time, but they have limitations, particularly in unfamiliar towns, and off road in the hills when the track disappears and the cloud comes down.
Last week I was shown an i-phone which superimposed a GPS "you are here" flashing light on top of the Ordnance Survey map, and it set me thinking about buying something.....but the question is, what to buy?
I am drawn to the large size i-phone, because I think this will have a big screen which I might be able to see without reading glasses. My existing phone is an antique which only does texts and phone calls, so its due for replacement, and to be able to use the internet to find the B&B in a strange town would be useful.
I'm not interested in recording how far I have been, how high I have climbed, or what my heart rate was. I understand that I will need to pay for maps which are then stored locally on the I-phone so you don't need reception...but I guess you need to buy maps for Garmin too? I believe an I-phone will run out of battery in a day if its "on" all day, but that separate booster batteries are available. I won't be going camping, so charging shouldn't be a problem.
Budget isn't a huge consideration.....the Garmin 510 is a lot less than an i-phone, but they seem to assume you will use a smartphone with your Garmin anyway.

So what do the technophiles say.....I-phone, Garmin, or something else?.....and why? ....please be gentle, I don't understand this stuff!
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Mick F
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Mick F »

Quick answer from me.

I've been down the road of Garmin Edge and the HR monitor and speed/cadence thingy. I played around with maps in my Garmin Edge 705, and courses and virtual partners, and goals and zones and all ........................

Been there, done that.

Now, I have a Garmin Montana.
Bought as a refurbished unit, with full OS mapping and all of Europe City Navigator.
It will navigate, it will display my position, I can have it "track up" or "north up". I can record my tracks, or not.
I can use it in the car, on the bikes, walking, on a train or an aeroplane, or even just to play with.

It has a huge screen, has a built in Li battery that lasts 12hrs, or will take AA batteries that will last 18hrs.
It fits in a pocket, can be mounted on a bike, in a car, on a boat, or in the cockpit of your aeroplane.

I love it to bits. :D
Mick F. Cornwall
Psamathe
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Psamathe »

I can't offer comparisons, just my experiences with my iPhone on an iPhone 5 (smaller screen than you are probably looking at).

I use ViewRanger (free) which allows you to pre download maps (over WiFi) and thus operate out and about without a data connection.charges). It can use OpenStreet/OpenCycle Map (free) or premium OS maps (or loads of other mapping for other countries, etc.). I started with the OpenCycle Map and then purchased OS 50k (LandRanger) for East of England (far more than I needed) which cost me less than £9 for the lot. To be honest, the only thing stopping me switching back to the OpenCycle Map is some weird feeling that the OS must be better 'cos it cost money. OpenStreet/Cycle Map is excellent. There are quite a few comparable apps (some more cycling oriented, some more mapping oriented).

This setup does all the "You are here", record tracks (giving altitude graphs/data, speed, etc., etc.), allows you to download routes (but does not do the voice directions), etc., etc. You can try it for free with the OpenStreet/cycle mapping.

Whilst it does the "you are here", I doubt I would use it to plan a route as the screen is not big enough. And whilst it will show you where you are, on the OS maps, zoom out far enough to see where you need to go and the OS maps are not great (I thought the OpenCycle Maps better in that regard, but not used them for ages). However, that is a limitation of screen size so applies to any device (smaller screen worse, larger screen easier, ...).

Power wise the batteries last far better than true GPS/Garmin fans suggest. You have a fair control over track recording sensitivity. More accurate a track gives more positions and uses more power. I use the highest accuracy most power hungry and find e.g. a 2hr ride might use 15% of the power (i.e. everything on the phone goes from 100% down to 85%). But I used to use it without a GSM data connection and the GSM (3G/GPRS) being on accounts for a fair portion of that 15% (i.e. turn off data and you use a lot less battery). I leave the phone in a cheapo waterproof Aquapac case round my neck with the screen off (other than for occasional checks on where I am). Having it fitted to handlebars with screen on bright the whole time will use a lot more power.

Personally I like the SmartPhone solution as it meets several purposes carrying only a single device (i.e. in emergencies people can contact me, I can record and report potholes really quickly and easily e.g FillThatHole app, etc.).

Personally I prefer the iPhone over the Android I had before. But there is certainly no "right and wrong" in that regard and I expect that other considerations would determine which you prefer (e.g. trust Apple or trust Google more). There are decent apps for such things on both devices.

Ian
tatanab
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by tatanab »

I too like/prefer maps because I can see so much that a GPS does not show me (nothing to do with installed maps but all to do with zoom levels). I have no use for following routes, nor do I wish to record where I've been or how quickly I might have pedalled. However - I do sometimes want the detail of street names etc to find my way to a strange address or perhaps through a network of forest tracks. That is where a GPS comes in, less than 1% of my riding. I started with an Etrex 20 which is fine for people who want to be able to walk from one grid ref to another, but did not really fill what I wanted and had a small screen. I now have an Edge 800 for the larger screen. I've yet to use it, well I've only had it since last August :D For your use, I would think that you do not need or want a separate device so maybe a GPS enabled phone with suitable mapping will do. Why did I not do that? I don't have a use for a mobile phone. Wot - a luddite - me?
freeflow
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by freeflow »

Most smartphones have gps so it's just a matter of choosing your app.

I've been happily using a Sony Xperia Z ultra which has a masive 6.4" screen for all my bike navigation and sensor stuff for the last year.

You'll probably find that a midrange android phone meets your needs car mapping. If you plan on mounting the phone on your handlebars then you'll need a waterproof phone. Sony Xperia phones are worth consideration if that's the case.
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Vantage »

Garmin.
I don't have to worry about the batteries going dead. I don't have to worry about the iphone jumping off its mount and being smashed to smithereens. I don't have to take my gloves off in freezing conditions to use a stupid touchscreen (the etrex 20 has actual real buttons you can press!) and if the worst happens and I'm mauled by a raging flock of sheep, the iphone is safe and tucked away in my back pocket with a full batterys worth for that emergency call to whoever is going to come along and save my bacon.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by [XAP]Bob »

I'm assuming you have a bar bag, and am therefore going to be controversial...

I don't do smartphones any more.

Dumb phone + 3G tablet

My tablet screen works through the waterproof case atop my bar bag, the screen is easily large enough to deal without squinting from an inch away (double the size of most phones...)

I leave 3G off most of the time, but it's nice to have the option somewhere, and the tablet is a better device for browsing etc.
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Heltor Chasca »

Hi Colin. Good post.

I am an iPhone convert. I use it for almost everything. The things are amazing. I get the weather, news, CTC forum chatter and I can bill clients from the comfort of my truck. I'm a self-employed gardener and it really is my "office". I can look up plant info and contact suppliers. My kids watch YouTube on it as we aren't telly-owners and I listen to podcasts etc while mowing or when I have a spare moment. I love it.

I have had an old Garmin GPS (Etrex) when they first came available to "us civvies" and it served it's purpose very well. It still lives and breathes and I use it at work to measure stuff and mark tree locations etc. I have also had an old Garmin Nuvi in my vehicle. Very good it was too.

I use my iPhone now as my vehicle GPS as I plug it into the cigarette lighter permanently and I'm very pleased. So a natural progression was to use my iPhone for my bike. On the face of it things were great and the app I had was a fine resource. BUT...

AND A BIG BUT...

Iphones just don't hold their charge when using GPS. If I was lucky I could get a couple of hours max before my phone died. So I invested in a dynamo hub that charged via a USB. Clever me I thought. But through use I found that even the dynamo couldn't out-compete the drain from the GPS. After a long day in the saddle the phone would soon be kaput.

The long and the short of it is that I have gone full-circle and I'm back to using a dedicated GPS. In my case a Garmin Edge Touring. It does more than I need as I'm not interested in heart/cadence/training etc. I just want navigation and a smattering of statistics. And at just over £150.00 I have that (Gulp - Credit Card investment). It also charges quickly on my bike if I need to top it up. And as I'm not using my iPhone as a GPS that charges quickly too if I need to charge it up.

In summary I've got a reliably charged GPS and a fully charged iPhone I can use from my tent/or wherever to contact family, research local sights etc, check the weather, read the news etc. I just don't think iPhone is up to the task of doing everything unless you can carry a car battery on your bike. :lol:

EDIT: I'm never without the relevant maps and a compass either. I don't rely on technology 100%. I also love maps and everything they stand for. In fact my 5 year old daughter's conception has everything to do with map-reading (OS Explorer 141 to be precise) Go figure..........hc
Last edited by Heltor Chasca on 20 Jan 2015, 6:57pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jezer
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by jezer »

I just use maps or route sheets when cycling, I can't be doing with all that technical stuff. My car has a built in sat nav, although I rarely use it. It took me months to find out how it worked, the Mercedes handbook and Becker website were both totally useless. It took a regular user of the system posting on Utube with instructions to enable me to grasp the basics. I'm still not impressed :?
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Mick F
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Mick F »

Vantage wrote:Garmin.
I don't have to worry about the batteries going dead. I don't have to worry about the iphone jumping off its mount and being smashed to smithereens. I don't have to take my gloves off in freezing conditions to use a stupid touchscreen (the etrex 20 has actual real buttons you can press!) ...........
My Montana has a touch screen .......... no buttons ............. but it works with gloves. The screen is soft, and not glass at all. It's an outdoor unit, so it should work with gloves.

Mobile phones can be used outdoors of course, so why don't they work with gloves? Seems daft to me.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Heltor Chasca »

Mick F wrote:
Vantage wrote:Garmin.
I don't have to worry about the batteries going dead. I don't have to worry about the iphone jumping off its mount and being smashed to smithereens. I don't have to take my gloves off in freezing conditions to use a stupid touchscreen (the etrex 20 has actual real buttons you can press!) ...........
My Montana has a touch screen .......... no buttons ............. but it works with gloves. The screen is soft, and not glass at all. It's an outdoor unit, so it should work with gloves.

Mobile phones can be used outdoors of course, so why don't they work with gloves? Seems daft to me.


Very pertinent. My iPhone is rubbish with gloves but the Garmin is great...hc
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by TrevA »

I've got a Garmin and an I-phone. I use the Garmin for recording and navigation. The I phone is useful - I've got all sorts of useful apps on it - BBC News, National Rail, My Fitness Pal for keeping track of calories, Endomondo, and I've also got all my music on there. It also syncs with my I-pad, so I take photos on my phone and they pop up on my tablet. I use the I-phone as a car satnav but not on the bike - battery life on the Garmin is about 16 hours, I would imagine the phone is much, much less if used as a GPS.
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by al_yrpal »

I am an Android fan. I have an HTC One S android phone. On it I use Osmand. I automatically determine road routes with cycle.travel and export those to Osmand. Osmand gives you a voice guided route just like a sat nav based on your cycle.travel route with an on screen display. It all works internally and you dont need a phone signal. I wouldn't bother with an iPhone which are poor value for money and expensive to run. Get a Moto G Android phone which has been selected by Which as the very best value smartphone just £150 or so and just as capable.. I use a Three 321 payg simm. A fraction of the price of anything else including use abroad. 3p a minute, 2p a text and 1p per mb of data. I tried a Garmin but they are neolithic compared to a smartphone. I sold it after a few months. Smart phones may suffer from short battery life but that's not a problem with the availability of auxiliary batteries. They offer so much more and unlike Garmins they run anything. ViewRanger is also good and there are other very capable mapping and navigation apps too, you are not just stuck with Garmin.

Try cycle.travel and Osmand on the PC, you can see the maps which cover all your off road stuff with bridleways and footpaths too, there are all sorts of Open Street Maps, some of them specifically for cycling.

Try before you buy - bit of a learning curve but fascinating... Good luck!

Al
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by pete75 »

I've used phone based navigators for years now. Used Memory Map on windows based smart phones and latterly Alpine Quest on Android. AQ is a very good product and if you get the paid for version, about a fiver, you can download and use OS maps in 250k, 50k and 25k for the whole country for no extra payment. The map scale changes automatically as you zoom in. The phone needs a connection to get these maps but it stores them on the memory card if you tell it to. Basically you can load whatever maps you want onto teh phone using wifi at home. It doesn't calculate routes but you can do those at home on something like ridewithgps or cyclestreets , export a GPX file and display the route in Alpine quest. Cyclestreets also runs on Android and has a good routeplanning option with voice guidance if you prefer. It needs a web connection for the route guidance and map download but again you can do this at home using wifi.

Android is a better bet than iphone really as you can get it with larger and brighter screens if you prefer, they cost less and waterproof, dustproof and fairly drop proof android phones are available. If you want to store a lot of maps on the phone most android will take and sd card whereas with an iphone you're stuck with whatever the phone comes with.

Been using android as a navigator for nearly 4 years now , initially on a motorola Defy and now on a Sony Xperia Z. Chose these models because they are toughened and are waterproofed and dustproofed to IP67.
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Re: i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

Post by Psamathe »

Heltor Chasca wrote:Iphones just don't hold their charge when using GPS. If I was lucky I could get a couple of hours max before my phone died ...

There must have been something wrong with the phone or the software. A regularly use mine to record a hi-resolution track (GPS on continuously) with 3G data enabled (checking for mail at the highest polling rate and everything else the phone is doing) and a 2hr ride only uses 15% of the battery.

Poor software can run a battery empty quickly. And old phone (with a much charge/discharged cycled battery) will not last as long but you can get the batteries replaced or even do it yourself (they are pretty cheap and easy to buy and replace (though I've only done an iPod nano).

Personally when I had an Sony Android (Ice Cream Sandwich) it was so buggy Android that in the end it went back and I got a full refund. The bugs just got in the way of doing so much it was madness. Then I switched to an iPhone and the difference in reliability was amazing (and a relief in that I could do things with it rather than fight to get it to work).

Ian
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