Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby 531colin » 28 Mar 2015, 9:19pm

Language is an interesting window on a point of view.
Refraining from overtaking on a bend is "normal" to me....not "patient", not "considerate" but normal behaviour....a competent, normal standard of driving. (which many still fail to achieve) The opposite, barging past in situations where its not safe to overtake is all too common, but none the less reprehensible.

If a straight road with good visibility is too narrow for a car to pass 2 cyclists side by side with a safe clearance, then that road is too narrow for 2 cars to pass. Most drivers will unquestioningly wait for another car, even though each car may only carry the driver...... its only waiting for cyclists that seems to be a problem.
So, you are being unreasonably held up by cyclists riding 2 abreast on roads that are too narrow for you to pass cyclists 2 abreast (and therefore too narrow for 2 cars to pass), but these same roads are wide enough for you to safely pass cyclists in single file. That's a fairly specific width of road, and its a fairly minor road. In Yorkshire, on roads like that, you get sheep out of the fields, stones out of the wall, and dogs and horses out of control. But its the cyclists that are the problem in Yorkshire, too.

pwa
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby pwa » 28 Mar 2015, 9:34pm

531colin

I think you are misunderstanding my views. I drive patiently and I do not think I am being a saint just because I am driving the way I should. And I happily follow cyclists on bits of road where a safe passing manoeuvre with plenty of room is not possible. But where the road straightens out and passing single file cyclists would be safe, but where passing two abreast cyclists would be too much of a squeeze, I would be disappointed if my considerate, proper regard for my fellow human beings were not rewarded.

As a cyclist, that is how I approach the matter.

TonyR
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby TonyR » 28 Mar 2015, 10:21pm

pwa wrote:531colin

I think you are misunderstanding my views. I drive patiently and I do not think I am being a saint just because I am driving the way I should. And I happily follow cyclists on bits of road where a safe passing manoeuvre with plenty of room is not possible. But where the road straightens out and passing single file cyclists would be safe, but where passing two abreast cyclists would be too much of a squeeze, I would be disappointed if my considerate, proper regard for my fellow human beings were not rewarded.

As a cyclist, that is how I approach the matter.


If the road is that narrow, as 531Colin says, its too narrow to easily pass another car or one coming the other way. But that seems to be an acceptable problem and delay to drivers whereas being delayed by cyclists having a chat as they cycle isn't. Perhaps if the roads are that narrow and you are keen to get on you should choose a route with wider roads so you can safely pass two cyclist riding abreast when the road straightens out. Either that or get yourself a narrower vehicle that doesn't take up more width than two cyclists cycling abreast and then you could pass with ease.

pwa
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby pwa » 28 Mar 2015, 10:34pm

Crikey, I've stepped on a hornet's nest here.

Tony, I'm talking about where I live. I don't have a choice of roads when I need to drive into town. Just one road. It's not all that narrow, but in a few places it is safe and easy to drive past cyclists in single file without getting close to them or requiring them to ride in the gutter, yet two cyclists riding abreast can prevent passing for quite a while. I would choose to ride single file there, and most other cyclists seem to do that. A small minority stay two abreast, even when they must know that singling out would help someone else. I think that shows a meanness of spirit. People are people, whatever their mode of transport

maxcherry
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby maxcherry » 28 Mar 2015, 10:46pm

pwa wrote:Crikey, I've stepped on a hornet's nest here.

Tony, I'm talking about where I live. I don't have a choice of roads when I need to drive into town. Just one road. It's not all that narrow, but in a few places it is safe and easy to drive past cyclists in single file without getting close to them or requiring them to ride in the gutter, yet two cyclists riding abreast can prevent passing for quite a while. I would choose to ride single file there, and most other cyclists seem to do that. A small minority stay two abreast, even when they must know that singling out would help someone else. I think that shows a meanness of spirit. People are people, whatever their mode of transport


I don't care who or what over takes me, but i have seen cyclist acting as bad as car drivers (some) when it comes to hogging the road.
Tony has a point. No harm in going single file to let a car go past.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

ukdodger
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Location: Sunny Surrey

Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby ukdodger » 28 Mar 2015, 11:30pm

TonyR wrote:
ukdodger wrote:Do you own a car Tony?


Yes.


But you dont drive it with empty seats I presume?

chris_suffolk
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby chris_suffolk » 29 Mar 2015, 9:01am

pwa wrote:531colin

I think you are misunderstanding my views. I drive patiently and I do not think I am being a saint just because I am driving the way I should. And I happily follow cyclists on bits of road where a safe passing manoeuvre with plenty of room is not possible. But where the road straightens out and passing single file cyclists would be safe, but where passing two abreast cyclists would be too much of a squeeze, I would be disappointed if my considerate, proper regard for my fellow human beings were not rewarded.


A question that always springs to mind here, especially when cycling in a group: Is it better to be a short length of cyclists 2 abreast, or a long length in single file? Say there are 20 on a club run, that is a long length to overtake if they are single, and unless they leave gaps (which they rarely do), then cars and others have to pass all of them in one go.

Which is best, short and double, or long and single?

pwa
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby pwa » 29 Mar 2015, 9:46am

Chris, I am 100% with you on that dilemma. Sometimes the shorter but wider group is better for passing traffic. It depends on the size of the group and the exact nature of the road.

TonyR
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby TonyR » 29 Mar 2015, 10:01am

ukdodger wrote:
TonyR wrote:
ukdodger wrote:Do you own a car Tony?


Yes.


But you dont drive it with empty seats I presume?


I try not to where it would make a difference. I mainly cycle or take the train and try to drive only where the roads are free flowing. But the one thing I don't do is complain that others are holding me up because I can't overtake them because of my width and I'll follow until its safe to overtake without blaming them.

In fact my ability to overtake a cyclist/group of cyclists is much more often dictated by other vehicles coming the other way than the width of the road. But nobody seems to blame the oncoming traffic for holding them up.

pwa
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby pwa » 29 Mar 2015, 10:21am

Tony

we don't blame the cyclists either, unless they are deliberately maintaining a wide formation where single file would be a help to others. And most cyclists seem to me to share my views on this. They single out where appropriate, then return to two abreast when it causes no problems. Simple.

reohn2
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 29 Mar 2015, 10:54am

chris_suffolk wrote:
pwa wrote:531colin

I think you are misunderstanding my views. I drive patiently and I do not think I am being a saint just because I am driving the way I should. And I happily follow cyclists on bits of road where a safe passing manoeuvre with plenty of room is not possible. But where the road straightens out and passing single file cyclists would be safe, but where passing two abreast cyclists would be too much of a squeeze, I would be disappointed if my considerate, proper regard for my fellow human beings were not rewarded.


A question that always springs to mind here, especially when cycling in a group: Is it better to be a short length of cyclists 2 abreast, or a long length in single file? Say there are 20 on a club run, that is a long length to overtake if they are single, and unless they leave gaps (which they rarely do), then cars and others have to pass all of them in one go.

Which is best, short and double, or long and single?


With a 20 rider group two 10's,two abreast, with a good three or four car gap between seems reasonable and considerate to me.
Ten riders filed out isn't a safe option on some roads IME,better a 'clump' of two's than long line.
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merseymouth
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby merseymouth » 29 Mar 2015, 11:30am

Hi There, A few things have kept up with the "Obesity Crisis"? Cloths, Sofas, Umbrellas and of course CARS !
Roads are suddenly too small for current vehicles? My last car, a Morris Minor, was 50cm narrower than my neighbour's Vauxhall Astra!
The Astra is skinny in comparison with the current must have models, but still a waste of valuable road space. TTFN MM

pwa
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby pwa » 29 Mar 2015, 11:34am

Merseymouth, do you remember how long it took to overtake in a Morris Minor?

TonyR
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby TonyR » 29 Mar 2015, 11:45am

pwa wrote:Tony

we don't blame the cyclists either, unless they are deliberately maintaining a wide formation where single file would be a help to others. And most cyclists seem to me to share my views on this. They single out where appropriate, then return to two abreast when it causes no problems. Simple.


That's alright. I don't blame the motorists unless they want me to continually interrupt my conversations with my cycling partner so they can get their big fat empty cars past me. Simples.

ukdodger
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Location: Sunny Surrey

Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby ukdodger » 29 Mar 2015, 11:50am

pwa wrote:Merseymouth, do you remember how long it took to overtake in a Morris Minor?


:lol: :lol: :lol: