Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
TonyR
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby TonyR » 29 Mar 2015, 11:51am

reohn2 wrote:With a 20 rider group two 10's,two abreast, with a good three or four car gap between seems reasonable and considerate to me.
Ten riders filed out isn't a safe option on some roads IME,better a 'clump' of two's than long line.


I agree but for a different reason. Strung out single file many motorists will start to squeeze past, realise too late they can't get past all of them and then bully their way back into the line forcing some cyclists to be squeezed off the road or take avoiding action. Far better two abreast and force a proper overtake

ukdodger
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby ukdodger » 29 Mar 2015, 11:55am

The bottom line problem with this is too many of us competing for the same road space and the reason for that is there are too many of us crowded into this small island. But that's another story. I often wonder how Continental cyclists feel cycling over here. I know how different I feel the other way around. This year I'm cycling to Berlin via Holland and back through France. Been looking at the route on Google street view. Frankly I cant 'kin WAIT.

merseymouth
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby merseymouth » 29 Mar 2015, 12:12pm

pwa wrote:Merseymouth, do you remember how long it took to overtake in a Morris Minor?

Hey Mate, I am not suffering "Short Term Memory Loss" yet! I only got rid of it 2 years ago. But like any action or reaction in a motor car, it's best done with plenty of thought processing!
Zone of Safety applies at all times! TTFN MM

nez
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Re: Greasing new hubs

Postby nez » 29 Mar 2015, 12:38pm

pwa wrote:Merseymouth, do you remember how long it took to overtake in a Morris Minor?

We never overtook anyone in ours.

nez
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby nez » 29 Mar 2015, 12:41pm

We never overtook anyone in ours. We used to go on country jaunts with five of us in it then spend hours at stops trying to rub our limbs back to life

reohn2
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 29 Mar 2015, 12:52pm

TonyR wrote:
reohn2 wrote:With a 20 rider group two 10's,two abreast, with a good three or four car gap between seems reasonable and considerate to me.
Ten riders filed out isn't a safe option on some roads IME,better a 'clump' of two's than long line.


I agree but for a different reason. Strung out single file many motorists will start to squeeze past, realise too late they can't get past all of them and then bully their way back into the line forcing some cyclists to be squeezed off the road or take avoiding action. Far better two abreast and force a proper overtake


That was my meaning perhaps I didn't explain my self clearly enough.

I've also experienced on a couple of occasions,motorists gesticulating by slowing down and jabbing a finger toward the gutter,for us to get into single file whilst riding two abreast on a wide road with very clear sightlines,only to be given a friendly wave in return,it's amazing how it infuriates them :? :) .
I'm convinced that motorists really do think they have preference over cyclists,even if they don't always express it,but the worst drivers can be very dangerous in their manoeuvres toward what they see as errant cyclists.
I've had a few chats with drivers who don't think cyclist are allowed to ride two abreast,only when explaining that it's perfectly legal and the reason why do they back off.
IMHO the 'untouchable' nature of UK law enforcement toward motorists and lack of any kind on strict liability laws in favour of vulnerable road users,not just cyclists,only serves to embolden the motorists attitude and belligerence toward such road users.
Might is right on UK roads and it stinks.
I wonder what the locals and police response would be if all the cyclists were to drive their cars up and down Box Hill and surrounding roads all day,at or just below the speed limit,to show how congested 'their' roads could be!
TBH if I lived in the area I'd be seriously thinking of opening a coffee house/tea room to welcome more cyclists in,and make a living at the same time,but then I'm deviant in that way :roll: :wink:
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pwa
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby pwa » 29 Mar 2015, 2:11pm

What's Box Hill like? Is there a good safety related reason for riding two abreast? Does riding two abreast still allow reasonable passing opportunities? My views on this would depend on the exact nature of the road.

I don't think all motorists are bad. I am one. So are most cyclists, including, I bet, most on this forum. If I lived in a place where cyclists came to ride a well known hill I would welcome it, but I can see how it might become annoying if some riders seemed indifferent to the needs of locals.

Vorpal
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby Vorpal » 29 Mar 2015, 3:42pm

They probably mean Zig zag road which is a typically narrrow, but fully two lane road that winds down Box Hill. As the name implies, it is very windy and doesn't give many opportunities to overtake.

IMO, cyclists who clump up together, however many abreast, will give motorists more opportunities to overtake than cyclists who single out. And there is a high likelihood that if cyclists do single out on that hill, they will be subjected to inappropriate overtakes.
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foxyrider
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby foxyrider » 29 Mar 2015, 3:43pm

why are cars driving on Box Hill? is it some sort of rat run? is there an attraction?
Convention? what's that then?
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Vorpal
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby Vorpal » 29 Mar 2015, 3:48pm

foxyrider wrote:why are cars driving on Box Hill? is it some sort of rat run? is there an attraction?

Country Park, heath, old Fort, a folly, stepping stones, National Trust Centre and a scenic view. Anyway, people have to drive up there to go walking, don't they? :roll:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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maxcherry
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby maxcherry » 29 Mar 2015, 5:13pm

Lots of cyclist with bikes on there cars use box hill
Even my jaunt to Cannock Chase i have to contend with drivers with the bikes on the cars
thinking they are in some type of Grand Prix
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

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531colin
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby 531colin » 29 Mar 2015, 5:27pm

Vorpal wrote:
foxyrider wrote:why are cars driving on Box Hill? is it some sort of rat run? is there an attraction?

Country Park, heath, old Fort, a folly, stepping stones, National Trust Centre and a scenic view. Anyway, people have to drive up there to go walking, don't they? :roll:


They are driving up Box Hill to enjoy the countryside........

nez
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Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby nez » 29 Mar 2015, 5:30pm

It's not just a british disease. A few years ago I was on theperipherique in Paris and someone on the local radio was complaining that the traffic jams were all caused by 'camping cars neerlandais charges des velos.' On the peripherique! In other words, traffic jams and road slowness is caused by anyone not from here getting in my way. It's the me generation - post thatcher England in our case. God knows what's the French excuse

Ps Max Cherry? As in Jackie Brown?

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531colin
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby 531colin » 29 Mar 2015, 5:53pm

maxcherry wrote:Lots of cyclist with bikes on there cars use box hill
Even my jaunt to Cannock Chase i have to contend with drivers with the bikes on the cars
thinking they are in some type of Grand Prix


Just because somebody owns a bicycle.........

................it doesn't mean they aren't a prat.

(Now look what I did! I made pwa's point for him! :wink:
...it just hurts more when they drive like a prat than when they ride like a prat.)

ukdodger
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Re: Police comments about Box Hill and cyclists

Postby ukdodger » 29 Mar 2015, 6:47pm

foxyrider wrote:why are cars driving on Box Hill? is it some sort of rat run? is there an attraction?


It's a beauty spot with a NT trust cafe at the top. Half the problem is people dont treat the road as a road they wander from side to side without looking. It doesnt help that the car park is on the opposite side of the road. Cyclists and walkers will exit the cafe on to the road as if it is anything but that. Lot's of racers will use the zig zag as a training ground endlessly riding up and down. If the local authority would put a white line down the middle it would serve as a reminder that it's a road like any other.