650b wheels

[samsbike]

Two questions:

1. What is the point on them (I cant seem how they can make much of a difference if I am using a 700/35 width tire)

2. If there is a point - am I correct that if I can run 700/35 I can run 650/35?

thanks

[Stradageek]

Supposedly half way between the low rolling resistance but more sluggish handling 700C and the higher rolling resistance but snappier handling US 26".

Or a lot of hype to get people to trade in their perfectly good 26" MTB for a new one they don't need?

[borderghost]

One thing I noticed on halfords is 37 of there bikes for sale now come with 27.5 inch 650b wheels. My new carrera Parva hybrid came with this size. To my eye they look like a nice size compared to 29er that can look a bit to big on certain frames.

[botty]

Another option for short people?

[Brucey]

there kind of is a point to them for road bikes;

1) for smaller frames (and fattish tyres)
2) if you want to use a particular tyre that is only available in 650B
3) if you want to convert a frame from (say) 28-622 tyres to 45-584 the new wheels/tyres will often drop right in.

But past that I just think that they are another ruddy size to worry about. This year's fad in MTBs.... but the choice of road tyres is not that great yet.... and who knows if it is more than just a flash in the pan?

cheers

[JonMcD]

I wonder if the increasing popularity of disc brakes on road bikes will take us back to the days when the diameter of the wheel was more or less constant for a frame size but the rim diameter changed for popular tyre widths. After all, 700×23C, 650x42B & 26”x2.125” are all roughly the same overall diameter. I assume the French 700A/B/C/D & 650A/B/C sizes arose in the days of rod brakes when changing the pad position for different rim diameters was a fairly simple procedure. With disc brakes swapping between 700C/650B/26” for different tyres widths is only a problem if the there isn’t enough space between the forks/chainstays.

[Mark1978]

Depends are we talking road or MTB here?

As the move to 650b for MTB is for entirely different reasons than someone would run 650b on a road bike.

[Bicycler]

2. If there is a point - am I correct that if I can run 700/35 I can run 650/35?

If you have disc brakes or drum brakes.

[garygkn]

I thought 650b was supposed to be the very original size of mass produced MTBs?
Geoff Apps and Gary Fisher were both working with 650b long before the marketing men of today got their hands on the moniker. Apps had been building MTBs since 1968 maybe even before? In 1975 Geoff Apps discovered Nokian Hakkapeliitta tyres in the 650b size. They were snow tyres developed by Nokian the Finnish company (Nokian, Nokia and Bridgestone are all linked). However when the mass production of MTBs was about to kick off it was discovered that there were supply issues with the Nokian tyre at the 650b size they were only available in small batches. Instead of the 584 (650b) we got a substitute the 559 as the tyre supply could be met at this size. I can't remeber who stepped in?

Anyway I tried to get more info on the web and as 650b has been the new invention for the last decade it's all about the new renaisance in 650b. Fortunately Geoff Aps has not been entirely but sadly he has been mostly forgotten. I managed to find this:

https://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/evolution/

You'll see that the 29er was Geoff Apps as well.

Is there anything new in cycling?

[garygkn]

I also forgot to mention 650b was available in France and was available on classic touring bikes with balloon like tyres.
I think they were quite rare even when they were popular.Tony Oliver was also a 650b fan.
I tried to buy his personal tourer that was a 650b based machine but he'd sold it to a chap in France and taken up photography I think?

[RogerThat]

Au contraire. 650b was actually very popular. And it also made it into the 'Demi course' market, a kind of halfway house between racer and all out touring bike. 650b is still the de facto standard for most hand built tourers in the US. The contemporary Rene herse (the 2015 version of the French legend) made in Colorado is almost exclusively 650b.

They do apparently roll very well, and fast and at lower pressure so very comfortable wheel set.

[garygkn]

It was popular back in the 40's in France on high end custom built touring bikes. The type of bikes that Jan Heine lusts after to my mind a 2015 Rene Herse is not really a real Rene Herse it's Jan Heine trading on the reputation of the real Rene Herse.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/04/ ... ndonneuse/

The resurgence in the 650b is due to Kirk Pacenti who discovered the size in 2004. He created the Pacenti Neo-Moto tyre and the new rims were made by Velocity and that's why 650b are around today.

There were other 26" wheel sizes: 559 mm, 571 mm, 584 mm, 590 mm or 597 mm!

http://sheldonbrown.com/26.html

[RogerThat]

I've actually got a 1977 Alex Singer 650b. They are still popular on touring bikes, but mostly in France/Spain.
I rather like the new Herse myself, think he's done quite a decent job of it.

[garygkn]

I like them too.
The only time I've seen 650b in France was on mass produced Peugeot bicycles which were also available over here probably since the early 70's.
Even the 1980 Rene Herse Randoneuse bike featured in the link above had 700c wheels:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rene-HERSE-Rand ... 35c6cf8513

I use to think that the sort of bikes you got in the book The Golden Age of Cycling were the sort of bikes that France was a wash with.
Alex singer was not a mass producer I'd say his bikes were in the minority.
You are very lucky to have a Singer.
Sounds like you have a fine bicycle in the Singer.
Any pics?

[RogerThat]

Maybe later. I'm off to bed, working at 7am!!!