brake lever - cross-type, Q...

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by simonineaston »

Sitting thinking about my impending drop-bar setup y'day, I suddenly thought about something... I am planning to fit a pair of cross-type brake levers, in addition to the Campag. Ergo shifters. I understand that the cross lever operates on the cable outer, pushing it, as opposed to regular levers which pull the inner.
My brake cables differ, front and rear, as do most bikes', I imagine, in that the front is a single simple length starting at the lever (or levers!) and ending at the brake. The cable outer is one piece and is not tethered in any way. So Far, so Good!
The rear brake cable is different. Not only is the outer separated into 2 sections, but the cable inner is routed through several guides on its way to the rear brake. How is the cross lever for the rear brake going to work? The front section of cable outer is fixed firmly into a cable stop up near the front of the cycle - surely a cross-type lever can only work if the cable outer is in one piece and floating free to move up and down the inner?
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
User avatar
Neilo
Posts: 421
Joined: 11 Dec 2013, 4:15pm
Location: Swansea Valley

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by Neilo »

The cable outer will be fixed at both ends, one at the main lever/shifter and the other end at the cable stop, the cross lever in between, the gaps between cable stops, where you have bare inner cable don't matter they are a fixed points and it will be just the same as having a full length cable outer. When you pull the cross lever the brake will operate just as the front does. I don't think I have explained it very well, but, trust me it will work :D

Neil
If it aint broke, fix it til it is.
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by simonineaston »

I'm a trusting sort of fellow, Neil ;-)
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
stewartpratt
Posts: 2566
Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by stewartpratt »

Stand alongside your bike and look at the run of outer between the (main) brake lever and the cable stop where that meets the frame.

Now imagine that that bit of outer can be lengthened by a centimetre or so.

There ;)
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by simonineaston »

Ta for the suggestion - but I still can't imagine it! It's enough to know they'll work :-) When I've got them fitted, I'll wiggle them to and fro' and admire the way it all happens! :lol:
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by beardy »

Are you aware that you have to cut the outer cable and the cross top levers go between the two cut ends and pull them apart when you use the brake.
As everything else is fixed, making the outer cable longer is the same thing, at the brake end, as making the inner cable shorter.
User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 6044
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by foxyrider »

I've run them on several bikes with different brake/cable run configurations - when set up correctly it doesn't seem to matter how, it just works! :D
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by 531colin »

Its all about the relative length of the inner wire and the outer cable. Lengthening the outer is just the same as shortening the inner. (like using the barrel adjuster)
A cross-top lever wouldn't work if the outer cable was rigid and fixed between 2 rigid stops.....but it isn't.
andrewjoseph
Posts: 1420
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 10:48am
Location: near Afan

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by andrewjoseph »

My wife found they didn't work well on her spesh dolce, no matter what i did, the movement of cable outer was not enough to give good braking, front or rear. she was much happier with them off.

i didn't like them when i tried her bike, too mushy. ok for slowing, no good for stopping.
--
Burls Ti Tourer for tarmac
Saracen aluminium full suss for trails.
User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 6044
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by foxyrider »

andrewjoseph wrote:My wife found they didn't work well on her spesh dolce, no matter what i did, the movement of cable outer was not enough to give good braking, front or rear. she was much happier with them off.

i didn't like them when i tried her bike, too mushy. ok for slowing, no good for stopping.


That's a clear indicator that they were not set up properly - in my 10 year experience I've found them to be as good, sometimes better than the main levers.

Lets get this right because its important, the cable outer should not be moving as such, rather it is being compressed - if spiral outer is used it doesn't work properly, you have to use linear brake outer.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by beardy »

I find the cross lever gives far better braking than on the hoods and as good as on the drops.

That is with normal spiral wound brake outer casing, I dont think I have ever heard of, or noticed any body, using any different outer casing because of cross levers before.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by beardy »

A cross-top lever wouldn't work if the outer cable was rigid and fixed between 2 rigid stops.....but it isn't.


the cable outer should not be moving as such, rather it is being compressed


I think that both of these statements are really open to being mis-interpretted.
Last edited by beardy on 3 Jun 2015, 9:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by PH »

beardy wrote:I find the cross lever gives far better braking than on the hoods and as good as on the drops.

That is with normal spiral wound brake outer casing, I dont think I have ever heard of, or noticed any body, using any different outer casing because of cross levers before.


This was my experience also.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by 531colin »

foxyrider wrote:.......... the cable outer should not be moving as such, rather it is being compressed - if spiral outer is used it doesn't work properly, you have to use linear brake outer.


Would that be the linear brake outer also sold as non-compressible outer?

Of course the outer is moving....cross top levers work by moving the outer, other levers work by moving the inner, mostly.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: brake lever - cross-type, Q...

Post by 531colin »

beardy wrote:
A cross-top lever wouldn't work if the outer cable was rigid and fixed between 2 rigid stops.....but it isn't.


..................


I think that both of these statements are really open to being mis-interpretted.


Go on then.
Post Reply