Is it Legal?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
fastpedaller
Posts: 2740
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Is it Legal?

Postby fastpedaller » 21 Jun 2015, 9:34am

I don't often watch TV ads, but was shocked to see Paul Whitehouse on the Aviva Ad promoting the "Safe Drive App"....... clipping his phone onto a dash mount, clearly obscuring some of the view forward.
Is this legal? I thought using a device (other than a sat-nav) whilst driving is illegal - and even then it shouldn't be 'fiddled with' whilst driving. I can see this phone with driving app being a distraction to drivers, and counter-productive. Can we get the advert banned? Another modern "safety" item which is everything but! :evil:

Psamathe
Posts: 11992
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby Psamathe » 21 Jun 2015, 9:41am

One aspect I can't understand about those apps is exactly how they establish who is really driving.

If I were a boy racer, then I'd download the app and run it only when my gran was driving me to the shops. Or maybe have it running for my drive to work at 5 mph stuck in a 1hr traffic jam. Sat night practicing donuts in the local Aldi car park you can bet I'd not be running the app.

So what can it really tell Aviva about your driving ? Or is it just a marketing tool to make people feel they are getting a good deal when in practice you don't really get much discount and you'd probably have got the same price with a bit of negotiation ?

Ian

Elizabeth_S
Posts: 216
Joined: 27 May 2013, 3:18pm
Location: somewhere

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby Elizabeth_S » 21 Jun 2015, 1:28pm

We don't have an app we have a gps unit fitted to the car to monitor driving, there are 4 of us on the policy sharing the car and we allocate mileage to each driver but they don't know which of us is driving at any one time. If we drive well (speed, speed pulling up to and away from junctions, time of day, and one other I can't remember off hand) then we get a rebate, if we drive badly it costs us more. The advantage for us is that we have young drivers. I would be happy to see every car fitted with a gps and driving performance monitored.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2740
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby fastpedaller » 21 Jun 2015, 1:34pm

The point that worries me is that it could well be a distraction to the driver - rather than a positive safety item. It would also appear to be illegal to use.

Manc33
Posts: 1713
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby Manc33 » 21 Jun 2015, 1:57pm

It should be illegal to think this stuff is normal. In 30 years time there will probably be a line on the pavement and if you step off the line you get a fine. I wish I was joking.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15174
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby Si » 21 Jun 2015, 3:06pm

fastpedaller wrote:The point that worries me is that it could well be a distraction to the driver - rather than a positive safety item. It would also appear to be illegal to use.


If one doesn't have to touch it once the journey has started I can't see it being any more illegal than a hands free mobile (which currently legal even if evidence suggests that they may decrease concentration on the road) or sat nav .

As for obscuring vision - obviously we don't want people doing that but it's not necessarily the phone that causes this but the driver's choice of position - they could equally well use any manner of other objects to obscure their vision - stickers, nodding dogs, air fresheners, etc etc

fastpedaller
Posts: 2740
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby fastpedaller » 21 Jun 2015, 4:54pm

Si wrote:
If one doesn't have to touch it once the journey has started I can't see it being any more illegal than a hands free mobile (which currently legal even if evidence suggests that they may decrease concentration on the road) or sat nav .


But it isn't a sat nav (which is ASAIK the only visible device that's legal). I'm confident this practice is illegal - and for an insurance company to encourage such use is folly!

thirdcrank
Posts: 30550
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2015, 5:34pm

I've had a look at this on you tube, so I hope I'm talking about the same thing as the OP.

I fancy that there's some misunderstanding because I don't think that this is a system which involves the driver looking at the phone while they drive. I think that this app works like a so called black box simply recording the driving style and habits of the user and after a couple of hundred miles it scores them out of 10.

Obviously, I may be wrong. If it's illegal, it must contravene some specific legislation so perhaps somebody might quote the act and section, or the relevant statutory instrument. :?

fastpedaller
Posts: 2740
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby fastpedaller » 21 Jun 2015, 5:40pm

thirdcrank wrote:I've had a look at this on you tube, so I hope I'm talking about the same thing as the OP.

I fancy that there's some misunderstanding because I don't think that this is a system which involves the driver looking at the phone while they drive. I think that this app works like a so called black box simply recording the driving style and habits of the user and after a couple of hundred miles it scores them out of 10.

Obviously, I may be wrong. If it's illegal, it must contravene some specific legislation so perhaps somebody might quote the act and section, or the relevant statutory instrument. :?


A good point - If it gives a 'live' readout of any sort, then bad news....... If it stores then maybe ok, as long as the 'phone functions don't start cutting in if a call is received. Doesn't prove a lot (in terms of driver competence) if there's no proof who's driving :lol:

thirdcrank
Posts: 30550
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2015, 6:07pm

Even quite basic cars are now equipped with instrument panels which can be set to provide all sorts of info and the speedo is a legal requirement doing just that. I've occasionally strayed into a display of current fuel consumption which has the potential to be very distracting as it fluctuates wildly between 200+mpg downhill and 10mpg or less going up a big hill. Digital radio displays show a lot more than the number of the channel, ditto CD players.

As to how Aviva protect themselves against fraud, I don't know. Perhaps it's a continuous process so if your dad did the careful driving to get the discount, he'd have to carry on as your chauffeur subsequently. :lol:

Manc33
Posts: 1713
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby Manc33 » 21 Jun 2015, 6:38pm

People have to take their eyes off the road to look at their speedometer anytime they are coming up to a speed camera. The argument "They shouldn't be going too fast" is a smarty pants answer that doesn't work because you don't know how fast you are going until you do look at your speedometer. I am sure someone proved there were more accidents happening around the cameras than were happening before one was put there. Sounds about right. Quick, put another camera there.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15174
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby Si » 21 Jun 2015, 9:31pm

Doesn't prove a lot (in terms of driver competence) if there's no proof who's driving :lol:


I believe that most private cars will only ever be driven on one insurance policy at a time, no matter how many drivers, thus it makes little difference who is driving as it is monitoring all use of that car on that policy. Of course, one could put it in another car and it wouldn't know, but it seems like a lot of trouble for little gain.

tim-b
Posts: 1674
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby tim-b » 22 Jun 2015, 6:03am

Hi
clearly obscuring some of the view forward

That'll be a question of fact, that is, does it impair the view that a driver might need to use to drive safely. The bonnet of my car (even when closed :) ) impairs my vision, if my phone was superimposed within the bonnet outline then that won't impair my vision further. Stickers and tax discs (of days gone by) also fall into this category
Ministry / police roadside testers will prohibit lorries with a Christmas Tree on the dashboard for this reason, and in the UK there tends not to be a visible bonnet on a lorry

The app starts itself. Once the phone is switched on the app will autostart by detecting movement through the GPS. It doesn't need intervention and Aviva advise that you use the cradle and "never use your phone while driving". No ifs, buts and maybe if you use Bluetooth, "never"

Regards
tim-b

PS I don't work for any company associated with Aviva, although I do have a life policy with them :)
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

thirdcrank
Posts: 30550
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Jun 2015, 7:59am

Going back to its Norwich Union days, this insurer has trialled black box-type recorders to analyse the risks presented by individual drivers. I fancy that this is particularly important for them in respect of inexperienced drivers, especially young ones. For a policyholder like me, there's some fifty years history for them to work on and presumably the biggest unknown for them is extent of the disabilities of old age. :oops:

I presume that the advantages of a smartphone app include simplicity - no need for something to be installed in the vehicle - and attractiveness of "apps" to the younger people at whom it is directed. To set against this, people have to think about privacy.

I expect that some of the discounts may be smaller than those being highlighted here, but they seem significant to me. And I still can't see how it might adversely affect somebody's driving, except to encourage them to be on best behaviour. :?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 16596
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Is it Legal?

Postby mjr » 22 Jun 2015, 9:19am

thirdcrank wrote:I presume that the advantages of a smartphone app include simplicity - no need for something to be installed in the vehicle - and attractiveness of "apps" to the younger people at whom it is directed. To set against this, people have to think about privacy.

They should also think about energy efficiency, as apps don't run for free and few people charge their phones from renewables.

And I still can't see how it might adversely affect somebody's driving, except to encourage them to be on best behaviour. :?

It looked from the advert like there was a display while the vehicle was in motion. Do motorists need yet another display to distract them?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.