Electric gear shifting?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Brucey
Posts: 44672
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Brucey »

foxyrider wrote:Given that it's a bill of nigh on £2000 to upgrade my Super Record to EPS it is entirely cost that is stopping me going electronic! Not that I need it of course but my limited experience of using it has me hooked on the idea. It probably isn't far off that the flagship components from the big 3 will only be available as electronic - newcomer FSA are starting out only with electric shifting!.....


That the manufacturers produce this stuff at all is in no small measure a combination of corporate willy-waving and a desire to flog more units/make more profit.

By contrast the 'benefits' for the cyclist seem slight at best.

Some riders will lust after whatever is newest and most expensive even if it actually offers them little or nothing in terms of real benefits.

Personally I would cheerfully have the lot of it shoved into place of diminished illumination, about the person of those that designed it....ahem.... :roll:

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave W
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Jul 2012, 4:17pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Dave W »

Charming.
Colin Stanley
Posts: 323
Joined: 12 May 2007, 7:05pm
Location: Somewhere in Kent

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Colin Stanley »

The OP asks 'Is it the future?'
Well, can anyone explain how it would work with a 10 speed Shimano rear mech and Campag' Ergo levers?
This is planned to be the setup for my new tandem using a ShiftMate in the cable run. The frame will have couplings to disassemble it for holiday journeys, so the front and rear gearshift Bowden cables will have joining connectors (a bit like an electrical plug and socket?).
I guess electric shifting is out of the question for such a setup unless it would be possible to match the signals from both products?
Do Campag' make an electric triple front mech setup that I could use or will I be 'forced' to use a Bowden cable Campag' front triple?
andrewjoseph
Posts: 1420
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 10:48am
Location: near Afan

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by andrewjoseph »

Colin Stanley wrote:The OP asks 'Is it the future?'
Well, can anyone explain how it would work with a 10 speed Shimano rear mech and Campag' Ergo levers?
This is planned to be the setup for my new tandem using a ShiftMate in the cable run. The frame will have couplings to disassemble it for holiday journeys, so the front and rear gearshift Bowden cables will have joining connectors (a bit like an electrical plug and socket?).
I guess electric shifting is out of the question for such a setup unless it would be possible to match the signals from both products?
Do Campag' make an electric triple front mech setup that I could use or will I be 'forced' to use a Bowden cable Campag' front triple?


i can see a time where you could program your shifters and mechs to work with any setup you can think of. the shifters are basically buttons, the mechs are electric motors, the control unit can be programmed. so the control unit can tell the shifters to move x amount when the buttons are pushed and you can specify value of x. if it is a wifi system then no cables needed apart from brakes.

so you could have several different front or rear mechs you could swap out with different cassettes of chainrings/cranks etc. e.g. 11 (or 10) - 23, straight through block for flat TT with short cage mech, or 12-36 (or 46) with long cage mech for sensible people. :wink:

same with the front mech.

it would cost a lot initially, but if things were modular then just swapping cages may be all that is needed.
--
Burls Ti Tourer for tarmac
Saracen aluminium full suss for trails.
Brucey
Posts: 44672
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Brucey »

anything is possible in principle....

however reality is somewhat different to that.

Incidentally there is a positive reason for wanting to use Di2 on a tandem and that is that it might make the shifts more consistent ( long Bowden cable runs are often more troublesome) and separation on your machine might be easier if the right connectors can be used, (even if it does nothing for the brakes).

However I can see all kinds of troubles ahead for a Di2/EPS system, too. Not the least of these is what happens in the event of roadside repairs being required, or breakage.

Thus I'd stick with boring old Bowden cables, and live with whatever shortcomings (perceived or otherwise) they might have. For touring tandems there is an argument that reliability and repairability will always trump any small gains in functionality, if indeed there are any.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave W
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Jul 2012, 4:17pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Dave W »

I wonder what percentage of the cycling population are in fact true 'Tourers' - probably not that many these days.
drossall
Posts: 6141
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by drossall »

I like my SPDs and indexed gears. I dare say I might get to like electronic. One day I may even work out why I want tubeless tyres, given that I hardly ever get punctures, so the way they are fitted isn't that important.

However, not so long ago, I was lucky enough to buy an original of my first dream bike from three or four decades ago. This has none of the above, obviously. It's still a great ride. Much as I love my bikes, I think I like cycling more.

I do think that the changes are (to quote Sky) marginal gains. And the gains are getting ever more marginal. By contrast, the losses are quite large as well. I started riding in a world where most wheels could be put in most bikes (no, you couldn't put a Raleigh Shopper wheel in a Raleigh team bike, but you know what I mean). That was really important in racing (any supporter could help any rider) as well as in touring (any shop, even one that didn't cater to the lightweight trade, could offer a range of parts to fix almost any problem).

However, the market has changed too. It used to be that few keen riders had truly off-the-shelf bikes, so every component had to justify itself in terms of its own features. Although there was a tendency to buy group sets, you could mix and match as you wanted.

Now, bikes are often bought complete even by enthusiasts, so whether the indexing is electronic is weighed against frame cost (and colour!), wheels and lots of other factors. It's hard in that market to say that any one feature is a determinant. And of course, whether you'll be able to buy the right spare batteries for the derailleurs in ten years' time is not a major consideration in choosing a £4,000 bike that may be replaced within a season or two.

The use of professional racing to test developments does mean that we get reliable parts. However, I'm not quite sure that reliable means the same thing for me as it does when there's a mechanic in the car behind with a spare bike, who will change your batteries for you this evening, while you get your massage.
whoops
Posts: 813
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:01pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by whoops »

If you want to go back to basics and the spirit of cycling why don't we all revert to a single-speed free or fixed wheel?
User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 6059
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by foxyrider »

whoops wrote:If you want to go back to basics and the spirit of cycling why don't we all revert to a single-speed free or fixed wheel?


Been there, done that, didn't like it! :wink:
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Brucey
Posts: 44672
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Brucey »

Dave W wrote:I wonder what percentage of the cycling population are in fact true 'Tourers' - probably not that many these days.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but it might be more than you think. Touring is actually a broad definition, perhaps more easily understood by reference to what it isn't than by what it is.

It isn't;

- racing
- commuting
- structured training
- riding to the shops

but that leaves a lot of other cycling going on that is in some form or other, 'touring'. I'd argue that it effectively covers any kind of cycling that isn't racing or utility cycling of some kind, where the riding is being done primarily for pleasure, and outright speed is not the primary goal.

A bike that can be used for the widest variety of on-road cycling purposes might be described as 'a touring bike'. We think of it these days as something that is meant for loading up with panniers but actually anything that is being ridden for pleasure and ever carries anything more than just its rider is arguably some kind of 'touring bike'; I'd include audax bikes, hybrids, clubman's machines, roughstuff bikes in this category; they are all 'touring bikes' in some way shape or form because they are not racing bikes or commuting bikes and they are used for 'touring purposes'.

So anyone who rides these bikes is a 'tourer' or a 'tourist'; not a trendy description perhaps but an accurate one. Many people buy a machine that they could use for 'proper touring' even if they don't do it that often; in any event, in any of these uses, I'd argue that the balance between performance, cost and ease of repair ought to be slanted in the same way, i.e. more in the direction of reliability and ease of repair than towards the high performance end of the spectrum, especially if there is any perceived reduction in reliability or ease of repair should performance parts be used.

So I'd argue that there are very many tourists; they just don't know it...

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
drossall
Posts: 6141
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by drossall »

whoops wrote:If you want to go back to basics and the spirit of cycling why don't we all revert to a single-speed free or fixed wheel?

Oh, I ride fixed quite often :D
Dave W
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Jul 2012, 4:17pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Dave W »

Brucey wrote:
Dave W wrote:I wonder what percentage of the cycling population are in fact true 'Tourers' - probably not that many these days.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but it might be more than you think. Touring is actually a broad definition, perhaps more easily understood by reference to what it isn't than by what it is.

It isn't;

- racing
- commuting
- structured training
- riding to the shops

but that leaves a lot of other cycling going on that is in some form or other, 'touring'. I'd argue that it effectively covers any kind of cycling that isn't racing or utility cycling of some kind, where the riding is being done primarily for pleasure, and outright speed is not the primary goal.

A bike that can be used for the widest variety of on-road cycling purposes might be described as 'a touring bike'. We think of it these days as something that is meant for loading up with panniers but actually anything that is being ridden for pleasure and ever carries anything more than just its rider is arguably some kind of 'touring bike'; I'd include audax bikes, hybrids, clubman's machines, roughstuff bikes in this category; they are all 'touring bikes' in some way shape or form because they are not racing bikes or commuting bikes and they are used for 'touring purposes'.

So anyone who rides these bikes is a 'tourer' or a 'tourist'; not a trendy description perhaps but an accurate one. Many people buy a machine that they could use for 'proper touring' even if they don't do it that often; in any event, in any of these uses, I'd argue that the balance between performance, cost and ease of repair ought to be slanted in the same way, i.e. more in the direction of reliability and ease of repair than towards the high performance end of the spectrum, especially if there is any perceived reduction in reliability or ease of repair should performance parts be used.

So I'd argue that there are very many tourists; they just don't know it...

cheers


Oh right I must be a 'tourer' then :lol:
Brucey
Posts: 44672
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Brucey »

Dave W wrote: ...Oh right I must be a 'tourer' then :lol:


well, you might find you are, if you aren't one of the other things...? :wink:

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Colin Stanley
Posts: 323
Joined: 12 May 2007, 7:05pm
Location: Somewhere in Kent

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by Colin Stanley »

ok, thanks for the replies.
I think I will stick with non-electric gear shift then. I gave up riding fixed a long time ago. Situated as we are between the Greensand Ridge and the North Downs I think I would prefer a choice of multiple gear ratios on the tandem that 10 speed and a triple chainset will give, operated via Bowden cables which are easy to sort out if anything goes wrong. Perhaps in another 10 years things might be different electric shift wise, but by that time I could be pushing up the daisies....
reohn2
Posts: 45181
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Electric gear shifting?

Post by reohn2 »

Dave W wrote: Oh right I must be a 'tourer' then :lol:


If you're not,how would you define your cycling?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Post Reply