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Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 4:46pm
by sussexpuddlepudding
Given the danger posed by lorries to cyclists I was wondering if bikeability (road safety / cycling proficiency) offers the cyclist a computer program of what it looks like cycling next to a lorry. Also do they offer what the lorry sees, or rather doesn't see of them?

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 5:07pm
by Si
As far as Bikeability in England goes.....

Nope.

But in L3 the issues of blind spots (not just lorries) should be discussed with the trainee, ideally with real world examples right in front of them.

I normally find a parked lorry and have a walk around with the trainee asking them if they can see mirrors etc. And then point out even if they can see the mirror they shouldn't assume the driver is looking in them, especially at junctions where the driver is more likely to be looking at what's happening in front of them. I also do A pillars and following vans/lorries through junctions in the blind spot of right turners, etc etc.

L2 won't cover this stuff as such as in theory L2 roads don't often have large vehicles (yeah, right). L2 does not cover filtering, but does teach the trainee to stop in positions where they shouldn't end up in blind spots. Alas, cross roads are optional so it doesn't guarantee they can't get into trouble with big vehicles.

Some local authorities (such as BCC) /training centres visit events with a lorry and matting - the matting is laid around the lorry to demonstrate which areas are and are not visible, and cyclists are also invited to sit in the driver's seat to see what the view is like (or not as the case may be).

Some training centres even do training for lorry drivers, such as BC! who take drivers out on bike and scare the heck out of them, erm, I mean educate them about what it's like to ride a bike near lorries.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 5:12pm
by gaz
Lorries don't see anything. Lorry drivers may or may not depending on how hard they are trying and where the cyclist is.

This graphic is intended to illustrate where a cyclist is unlikely to be seen by a driver seated in a lorry cab: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cpkp2GfW8AEq63x.jpg

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 10:01am
by pwa
It is certainly an area where all participants, both cyclists and drivers, need awareness. Some of my driving is in large vans (sometimes fitted with side camera) and, like many experienced van drivers, I am constantly scanning mirrors (and camera) at junctions. It becomes second nature. But as I only have one pair of eyes there is always the possibility that someone might slip in on the left while I am checking something going on elsewhere. I think I would still see them and react accordingly, but I'm not quite 100% sure about that. That is where the cyclist can help by not passing on the left if I am indicating left. As a cyclist it has always seemed "bleedin obvious" to me that squeezing in on the left of a vehicle indicating left is playing Russian roulette, but my "bleedin obvious" is not so obvious to everyone. So a bit of training all round would be welcome. When all parties look out for each other mishaps are very unlikely. And that is how we would like it.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 14 Aug 2016, 3:01pm
by mjr
I'd like it more if vehicles with completely rubbish visibility for the driver were removed from the roads. They're not only a danger to cyclists, but everyone and everything near them.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 8:22am
by pwa
mjr wrote:I'd like it more if vehicles with completely rubbish visibility for the driver were removed from the roads. They're not only a danger to cyclists, but everyone and everything near them.


Presumably you mean the older lorries with inadequate mirrors, etc.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 7:56pm
by gaz
Latest retro-fit safety device: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpmE_R1W8AAuGfV.jpg :roll:

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 8:23pm
by Si

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 8:57pm
by MikeF
Interesting (scary?) piece here at 15'50" on iPlayer.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 10:21pm
by mjr
MikeF wrote:Interesting (scary?) piece here at 15'50" on iPlayer.

Scary victim-blaming motorist-excusing,already being discussed at viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108299

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 20 Aug 2016, 5:03pm
by MikeF
Thanks

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 20 Aug 2016, 10:52pm
by Flinders
I never pass a lorry on the inside unless I was in a separate lane.
However, that doesn't stop them overtaking me, leaving me stuck on their inside, and then they forget I'm there (they ought at least to have seen me before overtaking unless they need the proverbial white stick).

TBH I think that if anyone needs training on visibility, it's drivers.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 8 Sep 2016, 5:12pm
by John Holiday
Whilst it does not strictly come within Levels1&2 , I usually mention that it would be foolish to ride up the inside of large vehicles for obvious reasons.
Some of the videos one sees of cyclists riding in large towns are frightening!
Many experienced cyclists would benefit from a little traning.

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 8 Oct 2016, 11:44pm
by Makk11
As far as I am aware there are no educational initiatives I know of that graphically show the huge disparity in views directed at cyclists. I'm a lorry driver, a bus and coach driver as well as a cyclist I think it would be great education to show exactly what drivers of large vehicles can and cannot see.

As an LGV and PCV driver I have the issue of "blind spots" drummed in to me every time I have to do my Certificate of Professional Competence and periodic training/re-training.

As a cyclist, I had never been shown how a small bicycle can literally disappear from a driver's view.

There are some very informative videos. This one is quite interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9E1_1M-qhU

How many cyclists can the driver see in his mirror? None at all, then wait...

Re: Cycling proficiency bikeability bike lorry simulator

Posted: 17 Dec 2016, 12:01am
by Laine1066
I am an NSI instructor who carries out Safe Urban Driving courses (sud). These courses involve half a day on bikes and half a day of theory.
As part of the HGV drivers continual training to keep their licence they have to do these courses .
I have had lots of different comments, from cyclists riding 3 or 4 abreast to why is there a cycle path on the left side in the lorries blind spot.!
There is a lot of frustration from the drivers, towards the dangerous cyclists that run red lights and take high risk manoeuvres.
In every sector of road users there are good and bad road users. If there was investment in standardized road structure, it would reduce accidents and encourage more people to cycle.

:-)