What do we think of this

For discussions within the Cycle Training profession.
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Philip Benstead
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What do we think of this

Postby Philip Benstead » 21 Oct 2016, 7:21am

What do we think of this

https://www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs/inclu ... gn=organic

Posted on 19 October 2016
Closing Date 18 November 2016

Inclusive Cycle Trainer
Bikeworks CIC
• Salary £8.50 to £10.50 per hour
• Location Flexible Location
• Job Type Either full or part-time
• Category Social Care/Development , Training
• Sectors : Education
Job Description
Inclusive Cycling Trainer
Bikeworks a London based not for profit social enterprise that is focused on getting as wide and diverse a population of people to start fixing and riding bicycles. To achieve this aim we run a range of services that support people to cycle including:
• An inclusive (All Ability) cycling club that offers older, disabled and less confident people a chance to start cycling
• Adult cycle training in groups and on a one to one basis
• Cycle Training in predominantly primary but also secondary schools
We are looking for individuals to help us to deliver this training. You don’t need any expertise, qualifications or experience but what is essential is that you have an interest in people, bicycles and changing the community you live in. For the right candidate we may also have opportunities engaging community groups and schools.
About Bikeworks:
Bikeworks is a London based social enterprise that uses cycling as a tool to tackle social and environmental challenges in the community. These include creating a more diverse cycling community, through the delivery of inclusive cycling programmes such as one to one sessions with adults, work in schools across London and inclusive cycling clubs (called All Ability) which enable anyone regardless of age, disability or cycling experience to enjoy riding a bike.
We are a not for profit social enterprise which means every penny we make is reinvested back into achieving our aims.
Scope of the role:
Initially this role will focus on providing training as part of our All Ability cycling clubs, to adults on a one to one and group basis and in schools. This will require engaging with people of all ages, backgrounds and disabilities so a personal supportive personality is essential.
To deliver this professionally we will you support you to become a fully accredited ‘Bikeability’ cycling instructor via a four day training course. We will then find give you varied and interesting work across London.
Whilst cycle training will be the main focus of this role as an organisation we pay a lot of attention to staff development. For the right candidate we will have additional work engaging with community groups and schools across London to encourage more people to start cycling.
Alongside this we have a fully working bicycle shop and reuse centre and have the ability and opportunity to train people in bicycle repair and sales.
Salary & conditions:
• £8.50-10.50/hr depending on skills and experience
• We offer full time, part time and term time only contracts.
• 25 days holiday (full time holiday allowance)
• Pension contribution
• Fixed-term one year contract with likely extension depending on funding
If you’re interested in this position, send a CV and a covering letter (no more than one page) about yourself along with a cover letter which outlines:
• Your experience supporting children, older or disabled people
• Why you like cycling
• Why you are interested in this job
• If you are looking for full or part time work
Application deadline is the 21st of November - we welcome early applications so if you are interested please get in touch before then
Essential Skills & Experience
• A passion for bikes and people – ideally with a focus on teaching people how to ride them.
• Good organisational skills: you will be working across a large geographical area, sometimes at multiple locations in one day. You will need to plan routes well, and ensure you arrive in good time for each session.
• Great communication skills: you need to be able to deliver Bikeability to a wide range of trainees including children, older people, community groups (possibly with a range of disabilities), and employees from private/corporate businesses. Your will need to adapt your delivery to suit your audience.
• I.T. literacy: we will need you to be competent with I.T. to allow the booking and data reporting elements of the role.
• Keen attention to detail: you will be reporting all session data back to Bikeworks HQ and there is an absolute necessity to ensure this is done with 100% accuracy
• Excellent standard of English – both written and spoken
• An ability ot work Saturdays
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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pjclinch
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby pjclinch » 24 Oct 2016, 2:31pm

Philip Benstead wrote:What do we think of this


Could you be a bit more vague?
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Philip Benstead
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Location: Victoria , London

Re: What do we think of this

Postby Philip Benstead » 24 Oct 2016, 4:35pm

pjclinch wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:What do we think of this


Could you be a bit more vague?
the rate of pay
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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pjclinch
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby pjclinch » 25 Oct 2016, 1:27pm

Current London "Living Wage" rate is £9.40 an hour, so as long as you rate that (it's half way through their rate range) it's not an insult.

This is working in a social enterprise doing something that at least some people do just to feel virtuous. The wages will not be high because if we charge more to teach Bikeability to the target groups listed we'll price ourselves out of the market.

I do cycle training as a volunteer so get paid expenses and that's it. When there have been posts for council or charity cycling officers around here that I could do I've dismissed them as just not paying nearly enough. The sad facts of the matter are that, at least at present, cycle instruction/provision targeting A-B travel is seen as a "life balance career" (in other words, you do it because you like it, rather than it pays much).

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Si
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby Si » 25 Oct 2016, 4:27pm

Current NSIQ rates around here for delivering bikeability are around £15-20 per hour. However, that tends to be for self-employed/part tie workers and it's rare that anyone does a standard 37.5 hr week - normally much less; plus the work can be a little seasonal. Thus although the hourly rate in the advert is less than here, the actual take-home per week averaged over a year is probably somewhat more. But, of course, that doesn't include an adjustment for That London prices.

On the other hand, when I worked for Sustrans my duties included delivering bikeability, organising led rides, teaching maintenance classes, promoting cycling, etc etc...so moderately similar to the job advertised. I think my pro-rata was around £23k, again, not adjusted for London prices. Thus the job doesn't look overly well paid.

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Philip Benstead
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby Philip Benstead » 25 Oct 2016, 9:00pm

pjclinch wrote:Current London "Living Wage" rate is £9.40 an hour, so as long as you rate that (it's half way through their rate range) it's not an insult.

This is working in a social enterprise doing something that at least some people do just to feel virtuous. The wages will not be high because if we charge more to teach Bikeability to the target groups listed we'll price ourselves out of the market.

I do cycle training as a volunteer so get paid expenses and that's it. When there have been posts for council or charity cycling officers around here that I could do I've dismissed them as just not paying nearly enough. The sad facts of the matter are that, at least at present, cycle instruction/provision targeting A-B travel is seen as a "life balance career" (in other words, you do it because you like it, rather than it pays much).

Pete.
You are living dream world. My fellow cycle instructor think rate is a joke. We expect at least £15 per hour if not £20.

When i do a private lesson i often charge £30 per hour
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Bonefishblues
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Oct 2016, 9:09pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Current London "Living Wage" rate is £9.40 an hour, so as long as you rate that (it's half way through their rate range) it's not an insult.

This is working in a social enterprise doing something that at least some people do just to feel virtuous. The wages will not be high because if we charge more to teach Bikeability to the target groups listed we'll price ourselves out of the market.

I do cycle training as a volunteer so get paid expenses and that's it. When there have been posts for council or charity cycling officers around here that I could do I've dismissed them as just not paying nearly enough. The sad facts of the matter are that, at least at present, cycle instruction/provision targeting A-B travel is seen as a "life balance career" (in other words, you do it because you like it, rather than it pays much).

Pete.
You are living dream world. My fellow cycle instructor think rate is a joke. We expect at least £15 per hour if not £20.

When i do a private lesson i often charge £30 per hour

It would be both helpful and courteous to explain why you state that the poster is "living dream world" (sic) since they presented their POV in response to your invitation - and did so rather more eloquently than your rather rude riposte.

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pjclinch
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby pjclinch » 26 Oct 2016, 8:53am

Philip Benstead wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Current London "Living Wage" rate is £9.40 an hour, so as long as you rate that (it's half way through their rate range) it's not an insult.

This is working in a social enterprise doing something that at least some people do just to feel virtuous. The wages will not be high because if we charge more to teach Bikeability to the target groups listed we'll price ourselves out of the market.

I do cycle training as a volunteer so get paid expenses and that's it. When there have been posts for council or charity cycling officers around here that I could do I've dismissed them as just not paying nearly enough. The sad facts of the matter are that, at least at present, cycle instruction/provision targeting A-B travel is seen as a "life balance career" (in other words, you do it because you like it, rather than it pays much).


You are living dream world. My fellow cycle instructor think rate is a joke. We expect at least £15 per hour if not £20.

When i do a private lesson i often charge £30 per hour


If it were a dream world that ad wouldn't be there with that rate. If you think it's dreadful you don't have to apply for it. If everyone agrees with you then nobody will. But I suspect there may be some people willing to work in a not-for-profit social enterprise who might.

I've already pointed out that I (a) wouldn't work in cycle training for my main income because it wouldn't pay well enough, and (b) charge £15-20 per hour less than you to teach NSCT. This is in Scotland, where the main model is volunteer driven and there is some debate right up to the top whether it works well enough, but that it works at all shows some people are willing to do it. I'd prefer it to be something that supported professionals but at present here that would mean much less cycling getting taught, which I regard as more important than whether more people can earn a living doing it.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Philip Benstead
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby Philip Benstead » 26 Oct 2016, 8:53am

I may have express myself poorly, for which i apologies to all concern.

My take on this is that in London most cycle instructors do the training as a job. But not all of them are cyclist in the sense it being club riders or has lifestyle choice.
Some of then it is just fashions thing or they have no contact with the wider world of cycling.

Some cycle training providers exploit their often-young employee by offering low pay for a job that has lot of responsibility.
Or in some cases the providers take on contracts they are unable to fulfil due to lack of instructors who live in the contract area.
Just because you passed the cycle instructor training course does not mean you are a good instructor.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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Philip Benstead
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Location: Victoria , London

Re: What do we think of this

Postby Philip Benstead » 26 Oct 2016, 9:23am

I know of many experienced cycle instructors who will refused to work for some social enterprises. They think they are exploitive and have very poor employment practices.

It the young inexperience who take on the jobs and it shows.
Once the young wise up they leave.
I have heard some horror stories.

I am unable to go into details for confidentially reasons.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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Si
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby Si » 26 Oct 2016, 9:37am

We expect at least £15 per hour if not £20.

When i do a private lesson i often charge £30 per hour


You also have to bear in mind that for most delivery models that will be the payment for an hour of actual teaching but it also covers the extra work that happens before and after that hour: advertising, risk assessing, organisation, admin, CPD, etc, all the stuff that any decent instructor has to do for their classes. whereas for the advertised job the successful applicant will get paid for this 'hidden' work time.

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pjclinch
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby pjclinch » 26 Oct 2016, 11:20am

Philip Benstead wrote:I know of many experienced cycle instructors who will refused to work for some social enterprises. They think they are exploitive and have very poor employment practices.

It the young inexperience who take on the jobs and it shows.
Once the young wise up they leave.
I have heard some horror stories.


This doesn't surprise me, but OTOH nor does it mean that the folk posting this ad are necessarily Bad Hats who should obviously be steered clear of. With jobs, as with goods and services, "buyer beware".

Philip Benstead wrote:My take on this is that in London most cycle instructors do the training as a job. But not all of them are cyclist in the sense it being club riders or has lifestyle choice.
Some of then it is just fashions thing or they have no contact with the wider world of cycling.


I would say anyone being a relatively low-paid cycle instructor "for fashion" would be the inhabitant of, errrr, a dream world... Unless the interview panel were given Hobson's choice I can't really see such an individual making it on to a team.

I'm not a club rider as I prefer to go out on my own or with my wife. That cycling is a "lifestyle choice" for me is entirely self-interested. I stay fitter and get where I'm going more reliably, and I enjoy it. That I might be helping to save the planet is entirely secondary. I don't think that makes me a poor instructor.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Philip Benstead
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby Philip Benstead » 26 Oct 2016, 4:09pm

pjclinch wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:I know of many experienced cycle instructors who will refused to work for some social enterprises. They think they are exploitive and have very poor employment practices.

It the young inexperience who take on the jobs and it shows.
Once the young wise up they leave.
I have heard some horror stories.


This doesn't surprise me, but OTOH nor does it mean that the folk posting this ad are necessarily Bad Hats who should obviously be steered clear of. With jobs, as with goods and services, "buyer beware".

Philip Benstead wrote:My take on this is that in London most cycle instructors do the training as a job. But not all of them are cyclist in the sense it being club riders or has lifestyle choice.
Some of then it is just fashions thing or they have no contact with the wider world of cycling.


I would say anyone being a relatively low-paid cycle instructor "for fashion" would be the inhabitant of, errrr, a dream world... Unless the interview panel were given Hobson's choice I can't really see such an individual making it on to a team.

I'm not a club rider as I prefer to go out on my own or with my wife. That cycling is a "lifestyle choice" for me is entirely self-interested. I stay fitter and get where I'm going more reliably, and I enjoy it. That I might be helping to save the planet is entirely secondary. I don't think that makes me a poor instructor.

Pete.

I was not implying or suggesting you was not a good instructor.

What I said those who were not club cyclist or life style choice cyclist or engage in the cycling community were normally not very good.

Because we are having a discussion on this forum means you are engaging.

I have meet and heard of reports of some instructor who have been instructing for many years who are not very good at it.

But all said and done it may come done to opinion.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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pjclinch
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Re: What do we think of this

Postby pjclinch » 26 Oct 2016, 7:47pm

There's no shortage of professional teachers who aren't great teachers despite doing it for years. Cast your mind back to school for proof.

To be a good cycle instructor you need relevant Clue (which the training process should confer, checked by assessment) and a degree of talent in passing on info and dealing with students, neither of which have much to do with being a club rider or engagement with the cycling community. Similarly driving instructors don't need particular buy-in to the "motoring community", whatever that may be.

Pete.

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Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...