This board & the role of CTC in Cycle Training

For discussions within the Cycle Training profession.
keepontriking
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This board & the role of CTC in Cycle Training

Postby keepontriking » 20 Jun 2008, 11:19am

The following heads the NSCT board

Graham wrote:The Cycle Training board
The "National Standard Cycle Training" board is provided as one of the requirements of government support and funding in that area. It is meant for discussions between those involved in professional cycle training and for public questions to those professionals. Inappropriate material on this board will be removed without warning.


Several questions have been posed on this Board which have not been answered, or even acknowledged yet the above statement, makes it clear that the Board is
...meant for discussions between those involved in professional cycle training and for public questions to those professionals.

Any reason for the lack of responses?

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Graham
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Re: National Standards Cycle Training Board

Postby Graham » 20 Jun 2008, 2:56pm

keepontriking wrote:Several questions have been posed on this Board which have not been answered, or even acknowledged yet the above statement, makes it clear that the Board is
...meant for discussions between those involved in professional cycle training and for public questions to those professionals.

Any reason for the lack of responses?

Thanks for flagging this up.
When I set up the board and wrote the description the CTC were contracted, to some government body, to provide services for National Standard Cycle Training. . . . phone helpline, internet forum and stuff.
Since then it has been branded "Bikeability" : the phone helpline (to the public), has (AFAIK) gone elsewhere and I have heard precisely nothing about the moribund internet forum in the last 18 months.
I'll try to find out what is going on.
Maybe if I can kill the Training board, we can have the much requested non-std cycles board.

keepontriking
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Re: National Standards Cycle Training Board

Postby keepontriking » 20 Jun 2008, 7:39pm

Graham wrote:
keepontriking wrote:Several questions have been posed on this Board which have not been answered, or even acknowledged yet the above statement, makes it clear that the Board is
...meant for discussions between those involved in professional cycle training and for public questions to those professionals.

Any reason for the lack of responses?

Thanks for flagging this up.
<snip>
I'll try to find out what is going on.
Maybe if I can kill the Training board, we can have the much requested non-std cycles board.


NO, WE MUST KEEP THE BOARD. It is one of the very few places where Instructors and others can discuss the important issue of training cyclists and related road safety matters.

CTC presently has a lot of very good cycle training information on its site, together with lists (albeit not up-to-date) of accredited NS Instructors. This is not available anywhere else now that Cycling England suddenly removed all non-Bikeabilty NS instructors from their public lists - yet astoundingly they still list non-Bikeability local authorties!!
That in itself says a lot about where Cycling England's loyalties lie.

CTC could (and should) stand up for the independent training sector, having been instrumental in driving a lot of its development and encouraging many to take up the profession. Some who were enticed into training (and in some cases supported) by CTC are starting to feel let down.

A lot of independents do not know what is happening and CTC is being notoriously quiet on the matter.
Perhaps CTC could make a very clear announcement as to what role it is presently playing in the cycle training world, what its functions are, what services it can provide to Instructors and how it intends to participate in the development of cycle training in the future.

At the moment no one seems to know what position or remit CTC holds, which is having a detrimental affect on the CTC's perception as an organisation.

One idea is that it could perhaps act as a voice for cycle-trainers - perhaps along with the creation of an independent professional association.

A possibility?

I very much look forward to hearing a response.

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Postby thirdcrank » 20 Jun 2008, 8:22pm

keepontriking

I think the point is that the CTC staff do not officially correspond through these boards (except when it suits them.)

Therefore, no matter how valid your points in the above post may be, you might as well shout down my cellar steps (and I have no cellar.) A direct communication with HQ is the only way to communicate with them - holding your breath is not recommended.

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Postby Graham » 20 Jun 2008, 8:26pm

I'll email Rob Fuller and relay any news back here. This will probably take a few days ( or longer if he is away on hol. ).

Oracle
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Postby Oracle » 20 Jun 2008, 8:56pm

While I agree with thirdcrank regards the Forum not being the place for official CTC response, I also agree with keepontriking regarding having an area to enable discussions on cycle training to take place. If we are to encourage cycling, surely we need to consider cycle training as an important aspect of that aim.

keepontriking
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Postby keepontriking » 20 Jun 2008, 9:36pm

thirdcrank wrote:keepontriking
I think the point is that the CTC staff do not officially correspond through these boards (except when it suits them.)


b b b bu but...

The Forum's National Standard Training Board is unique in that it was a result of government funding - and according to the Board's Introduction part of that funding was provided so that questions could be directed to the professionals - ie those administering cycle training functions, which include CTC officers.

This is very different to the other Boards on the Forum where I certainly would not expect responses from CTC staff.

However, that said, there is absolutely no criticism of CTC staff in my query - that is definitely NOT on the agenda as I have very high regard for the work they carry out.

My questions relate to what is the present role of CTC in cycle training together with the other queries I posed/suggested. At the moment much seems unclear.

I am very pleased that Graham is taking this up.

stevew
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Postby stevew » 20 Jun 2008, 10:30pm

I think National Standards has moved on and is no longer the remit of the CTC.
Comments please CTC.
Last edited by stevew on 28 Jun 2008, 12:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby thirdcrank » 22 Jun 2008, 2:45pm

keepontriking

I agree with what you say and I would add that providing a welcome for newcomers to cycling, which has provided so many of us here with a lifetime of enjoyment, is more important than providing a chuntering ground for lifelong cyclists.

On the other hand, this must all be put into context. This part of the forum is the only one with an official remit but one which was written in different circumstances. An announcement that the CTC has received £ zillions for the promotion of cycle training is always going to get a lot more publicity than its withdrawal but the reality is that has gone, and with it the original reason for the board's existence. If this had been physical space like an office, it would have been reoccupied by somebody else. It isn't so it has lingered in cyber-limbo.

Returning to the welcome for newcomers, the danger is that they come on this board and to carry on the office analogy, they ring the bell in reception. No reply. There are obviously others in the next room, but nobody answers the bell. (I have answered at least one posting on this section of the forum from somebody new to cycling who wanted to improve his fitness - another meaning of 'cycle training'.)

This part of the forum has now been up and running for over three years and has not filled two pages of topics. Often, posts receive little or no response. The only one that really attracted much attention recently was bickering about rates of pay.

I think it's fair to say that if the CTC HQ staff had little to do with this part of the forum when the CTC was providing training, it's unlikely things will change much now. I can appreciate your feeling that there should be somewhere for the discussion of training issues. I should have thought that at the very least the cycle training community should put up somebody to act as facilitator/ moderator.

Fredpedal
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Postby Fredpedal » 22 Jun 2008, 6:18pm

Just had a look at the message board on the Bikeability website. This is little used and the last entry(mine) is one month old.
I contacted Bikeability this week as I need to buy certificates and badges. They still insist on a mimimum order of 50 units. This will mean me paying £75 upfront, a lot of money for an individual instructor.

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Postby adinigel » 27 Jun 2008, 7:18am

Fredpedal wrote:Just had a look at the message board on the Bikeability website. This is little used and the last entry(mine) is one month old.
I contacted Bikeability this week as I need to buy certificates and badges. They still insist on a mimimum order of 50 units. This will mean me paying £75 upfront, a lot of money for an individual instructor.


I think one of the problems is that Bikeability isn't really set up for individuals, most of the bodies registered to deliver Bikeability are councils. That said, £75 for 50 units, to put it in perspective, is only £5 over what you receive for delivering levels 1 & 2 training for 2 pupils.

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pops

Postby pops » 28 Jun 2008, 12:35pm

Do British Cycling have anything to do with Bikeability now - I read somewhere they were getting involved.

keepontriking
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Postby keepontriking » 1 Jul 2008, 11:27am

Graham wrote:I'll email Rob Fuller and relay any news back here. This will probably take a few days ( or longer if he is away on hol. ).


Any response?

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Postby Graham » 1 Jul 2008, 1:31pm

rob.fuller@ctc.org.uk wrote:The Cycle Training Standards Board (CTSB) is the body that replaced the
old Cycle Training Reference Group (CTRG). This latter body was the
fairly loose coalition of organisations from the cycle training, road
safety and national/devolved governments that led the development of
what ultimately became the National Standards for Cycle Training. The
CTRG was bought together in 2003 by CTC and the Local Authority Road
Safety Officers Association (LARSOA) who effectively represented the
opposite sides of what was at times quite a controversial development
process.

The success of this development process can be seen when National (UK)
government (DfT) endorsed the National Standards as the recognised form
of cycle training in England in October 2006. At the same time, Cycling
England also recognised the potential of cycle training to achieve many
of the aims of their young peoples programme and committed to putting
serious investment into the sector. The also recognised the need for a
public-facing, marketable brand for the National Standards and this led
to the development of the Bikeability award scheme.

With the creation and launch of Bikeability, it was recognised that the
organic, messy but ultimately necessary style of development that had
characterised the CTRG needed to be replaced by a more structured
system. As a result the CTSB came into being as a government recognised
standards board to oversee the long-term management and growth of the
standards. More on the CTSB can be found at http://www.ctsb.org.uk

From the outset of the CTRG, CTC had pushed for cycle training to
develop into a fully commercial, competitive activity. However we
realised that the size and scope of CTC could seriously prevent the
development of this market if we were involved in direct delivery of
cycle training and instructor training activities. As a result we
voluntarily took on the role of the 'infrastructure' body for the sector
which in practice means the following:

Performing secretariat duties for CTRG
Managing the instructor registration database and associated processes
Acting as the accrediting body for Instructor Training Providers
Providing supporting services and materials e.g. Insurance, certificates
etc.
Providing an instructor listings service on our website
Providing a telephone helpline service both the instructors and to the
public looking to find instructors
Distributing grants on behalf of Cycling England

In order to fund some of these activities, DfT did part-pay us a grant
to run the Cycle Training Helpline for two years, however this funding
ended in September 2007. We also managed the Cycle Training Capacity
Building Grant on behalf of Cycling England for 3 years which allowed us
to do a number of activities, of which the principal one was to
distribute the instructors bursaries. This programme ended at the end of
March this year. As a result, we currently do not receive any funding to
run our support activities for the sector and are having to support the
sector from our charitable resources. We believe that this is a
temporary hiatus until further funding becomes available, however in
order to minimise the impact of this gap we have had to reduce our
service levels to the training sector. This has led to backlogs and
reduced response times across all of the training services which is
unfortunate but inevitable in the current circumstances.

It is also worth noting that CTSB, following a recent consultation, is
currently reviewing the way that the sector is governed and this is
likely to significantly impact the way CTC operates in the future. We
are in the process of preparing a statement about our future plans and
these will be put to the sector in the near future.

Hopefully Rob's reply will cast into context whatever is going on ( or not going on! ).
Please contact rob.fuller@ctc.org.uk with any specific question.