Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

For discussions within the Cycle Training profession.
niggle
Posts: 3423
Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 10:29pm
Location: Cornwall, near England

Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby niggle » 16 Jun 2009, 6:51pm

Your comments invited re. this scheme which both my daughters have undergone. I am not entirely convinced about the quality but OTOH my daughters' poor performance may not be a fair indicator:

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=14764

The bit about training to be a volunteer instructor fascinated me:

"How do I become an instructor?

You can attend a free one day training course which will include teaching methods, how to organise a course, hazard awareness and safe cycling techniques. An Instructor's Handbook will be provided. All you need to bring is a bicycle and a cycle helmet.

Once registered as an approved volunteer cycling instructor you will be issued with an identity card which is valid for three years. You will be covered by Cornwall County Council public liability insurance.

The instructors are assisted by helpers on a ratio of one to every four cyclists which ensures close supervision and visual contact at all times. A maximum of ten trainee cyclists can be taught at any one time."

keepontriking
Posts: 472
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 9:40pm
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby keepontriking » 16 Jun 2009, 8:41pm

Or in another County....

"To become a cycle instructor at your local school you will need to be nominated by the head teacher and complete a form....
Once the Road Safety Team receive your nomination you will be invited to a training evening for new instructors. These are normally held in the evening and last approximately three hours. On attending a training evening and registering with the authority, which includes a Criminal Records Bureau check for suitability to work with children, you will be able to arrange courses."

Three hours in a meeting room, and the instructors are not allowed to ride bikes with the trainees.

Top Quality Stuff here :wink:

adinigel
Posts: 177
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 1:07am
Location: Swindon - Home of the Magic Roundabout

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby adinigel » 20 Jun 2009, 5:50am

Considering the funding that is available I find it hard to understand why a council would not want to subscribe to Bikeability and abandon the inconsistencies of relying on voluntary instructors.

Nigel
DSA registered Driving Instructor, RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Car Instruction, SAFED registered van trainer, National Standards Cycling Instructor

keepontriking
Posts: 472
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 9:40pm
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby keepontriking » 23 Jun 2009, 4:18pm

adinigel wrote:Considering the funding that is available I find it hard to understand why a council would not want to subscribe to Bikeability and abandon the inconsistencies of relying on voluntary instructors.
Nigel


Perhaps the Council does not want to see more cyclists on the roads?

1. Target figure for casualty reduction decided
2. Increase cycling = possible increase in casualties = politically unacceptable and loss of all brownie points by road safety staff.

Yes I know % casualties would reduce but that doesn't count.
It is the hard target figure that makes the headlines :evil:

adinigel
Posts: 177
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 1:07am
Location: Swindon - Home of the Magic Roundabout

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby adinigel » 23 Jun 2009, 9:35pm

ooooh! How cynical! :twisted:

I like it! :D :D :D

Nigel
DSA registered Driving Instructor, RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Car Instruction, SAFED registered van trainer, National Standards Cycling Instructor

keepontriking
Posts: 472
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 9:40pm
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby keepontriking » 24 Jun 2009, 12:19pm

adinigel wrote:ooooh! How cynical! :twisted:

I like it! :D :D :D

Nigel


Not cynical at all.
It was stated to me by a senior road safety officer :evil:

"When I see a bike strapped to the back of a car I smile - that is one less potential casualty".

adinigel
Posts: 177
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 1:07am
Location: Swindon - Home of the Magic Roundabout

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby adinigel » 25 Jun 2009, 5:35am

keepontriking wrote:
adinigel wrote:ooooh! How cynical! :twisted:

I like it! :D :D :D

Nigel


Not cynical at all.
It was stated to me by a senior road safety officer :evil:

"When I see a bike strapped to the back of a car I smile - that is one less potential casualty".


Scary! :shock:

Nigel
DSA registered Driving Instructor, RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Car Instruction, SAFED registered van trainer, National Standards Cycling Instructor

niggle
Posts: 3423
Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 10:29pm
Location: Cornwall, near England

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby niggle » 29 Jun 2009, 3:31pm

Last week I emailed the council a request for an explanation:

"Hi,

After browsing on the CTC (Cycle Touring Club) forum I realised that the locally offered cycling training is different to that offered nationally, i.e we have Cyclewise provided by volunteer instructors, but nationally there is Bikeability from the National Standard Cyling Scheme which is provided by professional instructors. I mentioned this on the forum and one reply from a National Standard Cyling instructor was: "Considering the funding that is available I find it hard to understand why a council would not want to subscribe to Bikeability and abandon the inconsistencies of relying on voluntary instructors?" I would like this question answered by the person responsible in Cornwall.

Yours,etc"


Today I got a reply from Tasha Gillatt, STP Officer & Cycle Training Co-ordinator:

"Dear (etc),

I hope this answers your query regarding Cycle Training in Cornwall:

Bikeability is delivered to primary and secondary in schools throughout Cornwall and the delivery is co-ordinated by Cornwall Sports Partnership. There are 4 Sports Partnerships in Cornwall and the essence of what they do is overseeing physical education (PE lessons) in schools.

The School Sports partnership receives funding to deliver Bikeability but the funding is limited and we are a large county.

Because of this, we work with the School Sports Partnership to ensure that cycle training, whether it is Bikeability or Cyclewise, is delivered in as many schools as possible across the county.

Cyclewise adheres to the ROSPA National Standards guidance for Cycle Training and so even though it isn’t a national scheme, it operates at the same level as Bikeability. Although our instructors are from a variety of different backgrounds (teachers, police, parents etc) they all go through the same formal training programme, work from the same guidance pack and are monitored on a regular basis in order to minimise any inconsistencies.

All in all, we are working with Bikeability to ensure that as many children as possible throughout the county receive a high standard of cycle training. I hope this answers your query, if you would like any further information please feel free to contact me.

Kind Regards,

Tasha"

adinigel
Posts: 177
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 1:07am
Location: Swindon - Home of the Magic Roundabout

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby adinigel » 30 Jun 2009, 6:10am

All in all a good post and, if the professional trainers and the amateur trainers really are singing from the same hymn sheet then great. The more children trained, the better.

One problem I have experienced though. Wiltshire cc are signed up to Bikeability, Swindon borough council don't and have stayed with Cycling Proficiency. Swindon BC teach pupils that they MUST ALWAYS stop before emerging left! I maintain that this is extremely dangerous. If there is a following vehicle and the junction is open with good visibility stopping is just asking to be rear-ended, it's totally insane. Pupils in year 5/6 are quite capable of reasoning, they are more than capable of looking and making the decision to stop if something is coming or going if it is clear.

Rant over!

Nigel
DSA registered Driving Instructor, RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Car Instruction, SAFED registered van trainer, National Standards Cycling Instructor

niggle
Posts: 3423
Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 10:29pm
Location: Cornwall, near England

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby niggle » 30 Jun 2009, 9:09am

adinigel wrote:All in all a good post and, if the professional trainers and the amateur trainers really are singing from the same hymn sheet then great. The more children trained, the better.

One problem I have experienced though. Wiltshire cc are signed up to Bikeability, Swindon borough council don't and have stayed with Cycling Proficiency. Swindon BC teach pupils that they MUST ALWAYS stop before emerging left! I maintain that this is extremely dangerous. If there is a following vehicle and the junction is open with good visibility stopping is just asking to be rear-ended, it's totally insane. Pupils in year 5/6 are quite capable of reasoning, they are more than capable of looking and making the decision to stop if something is coming or going if it is clear.

Rant over!

Nigel


Funny that, it is one issue I have had when following my younger daughter about the Cornish lanes, she stops dead at virtually every junction, whether or not the view is clear. However it must be stressed that many junctions down here have very poor vision and emerging, even to turn left, often involves creeping forwards whilst looking and listening for traffic, particularly during the summer months when the banks have a heavier growth of vegetation on them. Your post encourages me to persuade her to carry on through the junction when she can see it to be clear. Of course some of it is about how quickly and confidently she can make that assessment, compared to myself with 35 years more experience, meaning that in quite a few instances she is going to stop where I would not have done.

One thing that I am curious about following the reply I got is how the one day training for the volunteer instructors compares with that which the National Standards Cycling instructor gets, i.e. how long does it take for a National Standards Cycling instructor to train? Another question is regarding liability, I suppose this is covered in some way by the County Council but volunteer instructors are presumably not professionally liable for what they are doing when training the children?

adinigel
Posts: 177
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 1:07am
Location: Swindon - Home of the Magic Roundabout

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby adinigel » 30 Jun 2009, 11:39am

niggle wrote:....Of course some of it is about how quickly and confidently she can make that assessment, compared to myself with 35 years more experience, meaning that in quite a few instances she is going to stop where I would not have done.

How old is your daughter? If she is under 10 then she may struggle to judge the speed of approaching traffic. Get her to practise slow riding so she can retain control when creeping up to a junction, stay close to her and ask what she is seeing and to tell you when she can go.

niggle wrote:One thing that I am curious about following the reply I got is how the one day training for the volunteer instructors compares with that which the National Standards Cycling instructor gets, i.e. how long does it take for a National Standards Cycling instructor to train? Another question is regarding liability, I suppose this is covered in some way by the County Council but volunteer instructors are presumably not professionally liable for what they are doing when training the children?


I missed that bit about 1 day training for the volunteers. If the Wiltshire CC course for trainers is typical then it is 4 days of training for Bikeability/National Standards.

Nigel
DSA registered Driving Instructor, RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Car Instruction, SAFED registered van trainer, National Standards Cycling Instructor

CrazyMotherDuck

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby CrazyMotherDuck » 3 Jul 2009, 7:17am

As one of the NSIs in Cornwall, the council don't like us ......... they insist of free cycle training and tend to ostracise us where possible but we are working on that. I hate to say it but when I did my Cyclewise training having qualified as an NSI as I wanted to get my foot onto the ladder and get the message out there, others who were also at the training day didn't even cycle., it is NOT a pre requisit!! I was actually told off though when running a Cyclewise course (in name only) but Nat. Standards style by the then training co-ordinator.

In fact the local NSIs are not even allowed to be part of the current Festival of Cycling that is running only the SW Cooperative have got together, got ourselves black polos with the SW logo and Bikeability logos on it with SW Instructor in large letters on the back., we are not allowed to put our table with child friendly goodies in the marquee or near the gazebo but trust me, we are present at all of them.

Last week we were told we were not welcome and the company who won the festival tender seem to want control although they come from up north so we protest and stand our ground as at the end of the day when they go home, we are the ones who fill the void yet people are not made aware of our existance. In fact last year, as soon as I handed fliers over re the business and my Cornish colleagues, they disappeared and not due to the amount of people attending either as the fliers outnumbered the people .. not once but three times!

What is so awful is if we didn't make this stand, there was absolutley nothing about training at the first road show in Falmouth ........ to find out who the local instructors in Cornwall are, check out http://www.rsct.org.uk/pages/who_we_are.htm - we are here and under Cycle Experience's auspices, another instructor training course will be run in Newquay in October if anyone is interested ..... anyone who is interested, dates etc. will be posted at http://www.rsct.org.uk/pages/instructor_training.htm

We shall continue to keep on keeping on at them ....... we are all of the same mind, not being able to put a price on a child's head so come and support us !!

CrazyMotherDuck

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby CrazyMotherDuck » 3 Jul 2009, 4:43pm

PS to my earlier post ..... re this .......



* Report this post
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Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby niggle » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:31 pm
Last week I emailed the council a request for an explanation:

"Hi,

After browsing on the CTC (Cycle Touring Club) forum I realised that the locally offered cycling training is different to that offered nationally, i.e we have Cyclewise provided by volunteer instructors, but nationally there is Bikeability from the National Standard Cyling Scheme which is provided by professional instructors. I mentioned this on the forum and one reply from a National Standard Cyling instructor was: "Considering the funding that is available I find it hard to understand why a council would not want to subscribe to Bikeability and abandon the inconsistencies of relying on voluntary instructors?" I would like this question answered by the person responsible in Cornwall.

Yours,etc"

Today I got a reply from Tasha Gillatt, STP Officer & Cycle Training Co-ordinator:

"Dear (etc),

I hope this answers your query regarding Cycle Training in Cornwall:

Bikeability is delivered to primary and secondary in schools throughout Cornwall and the delivery is co-ordinated by Cornwall Sports Partnership. There are 4 Sports Partnerships in Cornwall and the essence of what they do is overseeing physical education (PE lessons) in schools.

The School Sports partnership receives funding to deliver Bikeability but the funding is limited and we are a large county.

Because of this, we work with the School Sports Partnership to ensure that cycle training, whether it is Bikeability or Cyclewise, is delivered in as many schools as possible across the county.

Cyclewise adheres to the ROSPA National Standards guidance for Cycle Training and so even though it isn’t a national scheme, it operates at the same level as Bikeability. Although our instructors are from a variety of different backgrounds (teachers, police, parents etc) they all go through the same formal training programme, work from the same guidance pack and are monitored on a regular basis in order to minimise any inconsistencies.

All in all, we are working with Bikeability to ensure that as many children as possible throughout the county receive a high standard of cycle training. I hope this answers your query, if you would like any further information please feel free to contact me.

This is what they want you to hear ..... the reality is different., 1. A very influential government consultant was down here early January to discuss with the council, the possibility of applying for a grant for Bikeability so that it could be delivered right across the county ... they declined this year, partially due to the uncertainty of the Unitary Authority emerging in April claiming so much work etc. however that person and his colleague remain optimistic .. given their attitude to us and lack of any sign of instructors even being evident at the cycling festival, they don't exactly work with Bikeability promoting it by any stretch of the imagination .....
2. If that is the case why did I get told off for using NS methods when teaching 'Cyclewise'??? Oh boy did I get my knuckles rapped and the RoSPA National Standard that is referred to, is the old fashioned and somewhat outdated 'Right Track' guide for instructors based on the old fashioned cycling proficiency. And yes, they do insist that even at a Give Way, everyone must stop .. personally I did explain the difference between a Give Way and Stop and advise that if they are not sure because they cannot see because of an overgrown hedgerow for example, then they stop momentarily at a give way to listen but if they are certain that nothing is coming as they have good visibility, then they should consider carrying on as no car coming behind them, would necessarily expect them to stop other than to give way to traffic on the main road unless visibility was poor! That was still wrong though according to the council ... hey ho but we are here and we will continue to encourage the council to come on board as well!

adinigel
Posts: 177
Joined: 21 Oct 2007, 1:07am
Location: Swindon - Home of the Magic Roundabout

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby adinigel » 4 Jul 2009, 11:13pm

CrazyMotherDuck wrote:....And yes, they do insist that even at a Give Way, everyone must stop....


This is one of my biggest gripes with teh Swindon Cycling Proficiency. It can be so dangerous to stop when there is nothing coming - just asking to be hit from behind! Year 6 pupils are not stupid, they can understand why something should be done and if they understand why, they are more likely to follow it.

Nigel
DSA registered Driving Instructor, RoSPA Diploma in Advanced Car Instruction, SAFED registered van trainer, National Standards Cycling Instructor

CrazyMotherDuck

Re: Cornwall County Council Cyclewise Training

Postby CrazyMotherDuck » 11 Jul 2009, 4:01am

Let me give you another example or two then ..

1. A year ago or perhaps a little more, one of my colleagues, a very able NSI and MTB Instructor applied to CCC for the position of Road Safety Co-ordinator to supplement his income from cycle training as we are up against it down here., no prizes for guessing that he was sent a 'Dear John' but the best bit was their reasoning ......... he didn't have a degree, any degree in any subject .. but as he didn't have one, he didn't fit their remit either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't get me started! :roll:

2. This past couple of weeks at the Festival of Cycling, I suspect I might have met one or two people who have written on this forum but if not, hey guys, today is the last one in Truro on Lemon Quay and come rain or shine, Karen, Jon and I will be there ...... Rob and Mark may come and join us and possibly Matt too .. Last week one of the Pedal Back the Years ride leaders put a 35 year old novice my way., by Sunday lunch time she was motoring and this week not only hired a bike to cycle to Marazion from Penzance but did the same again to get around St Marys' when she went over for the day with her friend, she was down on holiday with from London - and when she goes back to London, she plans on taking more lessons so she can cycle to work ... this may be the Festival of Cycling but with the best will in the world, how could that have happened if we had not stood our ground and faded into the back ground the first time we were challenged because there is no sign of any other information about Cyclewise or anything else there, even less any instructors being visible!!

They want to promote health etc., Cyclewise instructors only do Y6 children so how can adults learn to ride if that is outside of their remit but they want to learn to ride., that again, is where we come in but still they want to hide us ... one friend though sent me this which I forwarded onto the council and since having done so, we are getting less grief ..

This is a potentially very useful Private Members Bill which got through its first reading in Parliament.
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/200 ... yment.html
and here is what was said, as reported in Hansard
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 3-0009.htm
Next reading scheduled for 26 Oct.

Hopefully see some locals down town later!