Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

For discussions within the Cycle Training profession.
crs1953

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby crs1953 » 15 Jan 2006, 2:51pm

P.S.

I forgot to add that motorists' vision seems to have deteriorated over the years too as I frequently have drivers pull out in front of me after sunset when I'm wearing a VERY noticeable yellow reflective jacket and using a cateye EL500 front light.
I don't have a bell but I have developed a very loud shout !!

crs1953

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby crs1953 » 15 Jan 2006, 2:52pm

Are you a safe cyclist ? - an on-line quiz

I must agree with you all - I did that quiz when it was first posted back in April and I think I got either two or three 'correct'. I'd consider myself a competent cyclist on the roads and although I'm a 'returner' to cycling after many years, I was on a bike on the roads at the age of eleven - progressed to motorcycle at 16 - thence to cars with sporadic bouts of cycling. So... I consider myself to have 41 years of experience of being on the roads. Apart from the obvious massive increase in the number of cars using the roads, the only major change I've noticed is the attitude of most motorists to cyclists and that is one of INTOLERANCE

I now ride EXPECTING to have comments shouted at me from passing vehicles, to be cut up, to have people pull out in front of me when I'm half way round an island and all the other stunts that drivers pull. and I ride ACCORDINGLY - that is to say safely (for me) and I stay within the rules of the highway code as far as is possible and as far as is practicable

So am I a safe cyclist ???? YES !!! just don't expect me to get too many quiz questions correct !!!!

sumo

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby sumo » 16 Jan 2006, 6:37pm

hi message regarding your comparison on m/c cbt. i too like rob, teach cbt and das on m/cycles.
i totally agree with rob. i personally think a cycle cbt, should of been compulsory @ same time as the m/cycle one came out. the standards required on a cbt, are progressively moved up by the dsa. which is in turn done by them monitoring various instructors, and picking out new - good ideas and techniques. and expecting them across the board. to develop with the times.

DuncanK

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby DuncanK » 3 Feb 2006, 10:19am

Hi All,

I'd like to put a vote in favour of this safe cycling quiz (http://www.mopoc.com/m3/v1/cycling/qstart.php).

I've been cycle commuting for the past 8 years on busy Essex roads. I took the time to read "Cyclecraft" by John Franklin, as recommended by the CTC and would recommend that others do the same before criticising this quiz. It is (as it says) based on that book and the advice it gives works.

It may not make you more popular with motorists, but it's not about being popular, it's about staying alive!

I know plenty of experienced cyclists who don't follow the advice given who haven't had accidents. Anecdotal evidence like that doesn't mean that the book is wrong, or that what they do is safer.

Could those who have done the motorcyclists CBT and think this quiz is wrong explain how their answers to each question would be different, and why?

dr ziff

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby dr ziff » 5 Feb 2006, 6:06pm

Perhaps those people who think the test is rubbish could try some of these ideas out on the road before they rush to judgement?.

I had cycled in London traffic for 20 years before I was trained as an instructor, teaching assertive cycling. The basic principle is that as a cyclist you are entitled to the use of the road, and in asserting that right you actually improve your safety.

If you try to 'keep out of the way' of motorised traffic, then very often all you do is encourage people to drive past you at higher speeds. If you cycle further out in the carriageway, position yourself in the centre of the lane at junctions, and so on, then you compel people driving up behind you to slow down and wait until they can overtake, generally leaving more room between you and their car.

After all, if people can see you, and they know what you are going to do next, they are not exactly going to deliberately run into you, are they?

VP

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby VP » 5 Feb 2006, 10:40pm

I can't agree more with you Dr Ziff. Very similar background- ie 20 years cycling and then training as a National Standard cycle instructor. This stuff really works and it's really unscientific to rubbish it before trying it out. I used to have motorists cutting me up and near misses quite frequently. I always blamed the driver! But now it just doesn't happen, taking the lane just seems to signal to drivers that you are there and in front of them, and meanwhile you are taking responsibility for your own safety and not leaving it to chance and other road users. I get places more quickly cos I go in straighter lines and I treat traffic as a lot of individual drivers who I communicate with at frequent intervals. All of you who are rubbishing the ideas - go out with a cycle trainer and try them out!!

troywinters

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby troywinters » 6 Feb 2006, 1:25pm

world cuckoo cloud.
the average modern driver is selfish lazy stupid arrogant and homicidal when delayed even by a second by anyone else. and if thats a vulnerable cyclist then god help them. sticking rigidily to peter's mantra is stupid. as simple as that. stupid. you adapt to the particular circumstances, at some places you will ride out to stop dangerous overtaking etc but to do so all the time will at the very least just pointlessly teed off all other road users and quite possibly get yourself beaten up or deliberately runover. it's a jungle out there, the opposition dont play by any fixed rules, they make it up as it suits them. in peter's world he has fixed width lanes. guess what mate, in the real world some lanes are wide enough for 2 or even 3 cars to travel alongside, whilst some lanes are literally just 1 car width. you cant avoid blocking in the latter but the former how far to the left to you go eh? eh? eh? in any position you will still leave room for a car to pass. and if you're damn fool enough to go too near the left you could easily get overtaken by someone overtaking anyway else straight rear-ended. I can only assume that peter cycles all day at that private road testing circuit and not in the real world of criminals who think only everybody else should obey the law. or is peter seriously deluded into thinking that the police will even bother responding to any altercation resulting from his less than thoughtful approach, let alone responding in time to save him from been killed, last time I checked a bs cycle helmet is no protection from a smack in the snozzer. it's war on the streets and no it's not them versus us, it's criminal against anyone who gets in the way. trust me, more motorists have been beaten to death or shot or stabbed then cyclists in road rage incidents, we're just easier targets. oh and I do generally try things before passing judgement, well except for stealing lead from church roofs, sacrificing babies, eating reindeer or dog meat. I just know that if every cyclist was to follow misguided peter we'd be in deep doodoo and as dead as the dodo.finally I very much doubt that peters quiz could be used by a cyclist in court to a; defend themselves against a charge of riding without due care, let alone b; to sue a motorist for runing them over.

James

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby James » 6 Feb 2006, 2:17pm

What is the official CTC view on this test? Does it conform to Highway code rules?

dr ziff

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby dr ziff » 6 Feb 2006, 10:01pm

I agree that a more prominent riding position does nothing to protect you from homicidal attack. I also agree that it is unwise to try to block traffic in a 3-lane highway.

However, I do think that riding in the style recommended in the quiz will reduce the likelihood of someone running into you unintentionally, either because they did not see you or they were unsure about your intentions.

In my experience this is a far greater risk than someone deliberately running into me because they are annoyed at me for making them slow down and/or deviate from a straight line.

I used to get into regular confrontations with motorists, until I realised that I was contributing to my own problems through my riding style. Now that I have learned how to create more space around me on the road, I find cycling in traffic far less stressful. Consequently the idea that motorists are all a bunch of maniacs determined to cut me up has faded gently away.

You should try it ...

crs1953

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby crs1953 » 7 Feb 2006, 6:07pm

world cuckoo cloud............

Spot on Troy - I'll second all of that

Colin

towedhaul

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby towedhaul » 8 Feb 2006, 3:04pm

I'm with VP & the DR. There's an occasional idiot driver but not many. Cycle at a sensible speed where people (not cars!) can see you. Look at people (not cars!) before you change direction. On a good day it's like a choreographed dance. Sometimes it's not, but it's still OK. I do loads of riding in heavy urban traffic in Bristol & London. It's fine, those drivers aren't out to get you or me. It must be something we're doing differently to get such a different experience on the road. A good instructor will take you out and watch what you do. Then they'll get you to think about your options. You can choose to take it on board or not. Book a lesson. It's only £25. Think of the stress relief if it works, think of how many times you could say "I told you so" if it doesn't.

keepontriking

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby keepontriking » 8 Feb 2006, 4:57pm

If you come to Hampshire it is even cheaper ;-)

John
http://www.hampshirecycletraining.org.uk/

troywinters

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby troywinters » 10 Feb 2006, 10:38am

I guess I have to move to pleasanter pastures

Andy Tallis

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby Andy Tallis » 12 Feb 2006, 3:15pm

My experience: ride prominently and assertively and you get more room but also more beeps. I know which I'd prefer! The aggressive response can be offensive and upsetting but I don't feel more at risk with the behaviour that accompanies it (hardly nice though) than the ususal appaulingly colse overtake I often recieve if I cower into the kerb. If there isn't room for them to pass: TOUGH! If appropriate and the driver concerned is actuially behaving reasonably I will move over as soon as it is safe, but I object to being expected to lay down my rights for some selfish being. I am entitled to as much room as a car. If they beep their horn agressively it is an act of driving without due care and consideration (max penalty 3 points and a £2500 fine I beleive) so they are the ones in the wrong.

I did, yesterday, experience some exceptionally good driving when out cycling - people leaving fantastic room and waiting patiently for a safe place to pass as I winched up a hill, then waving as they overtook.

Andy :-)

Andy :-)

towedhaul

Re:Are you a safe cyclist - an on-line quiz

Postby towedhaul » 13 Feb 2006, 2:36pm

Pssst. Wanna tip to stop the beeping?
Listen, they're trying to make sure you know they're there. They think you might be riding in that position because you haven't noticed they're behind you. Here's the tip. Look at them. If you can smile sweetly too it's even better 'cos then they smile back when they overtake. But regular (every 10 secs ish) looking stops the beeps. Good innit?