How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

For discussions within the Cycle Training profession.
plodder73
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How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby plodder73 » 31 Aug 2012, 12:55pm

This may seem a little nosey and for that I apologise. I work for a council and get paid basically the minmum wage( about £6 an hour), a course lasts two days and we are paid 7 hours a day, the day starting at 8.30 and ending at 3.30. So as you can see they pay us for lunch, but to be fair we often work lunch checking out suitable loactions. With travelling I am on average away from home for 8.5/9 hours.

We also get travelling expenses fro home to the location of 40p as mile but not travelling time which can often, because of the rural location be an hour each way. So when I add it all up after tax get about £50 for the day (average)(see below correction). We get little else, not least support or thanks from those in charge and I am thinking of trying for a better deal. We use our own bikes and dont get clothing or an allowance. Are others in the same boat, could I realistically expect more than this.




Thanks in advance.
Last edited by plodder73 on 31 Aug 2012, 2:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

plodder73
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby plodder73 » 31 Aug 2012, 2:03pm

Just as a matter of correction I have perhaps overexaggerated what I am paid, as the petrol expenses just about covers my costs. So I get 7 x £6.20 an hour minus 20 percent tax so in reality that is about £35 for the day net pay. Just doesnt seem very much for a day that when I go home I am completely shattered, no one told me you would have to concentrate so much as the kids do the most crazy things!

Vorpal
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby Vorpal » 31 Aug 2012, 8:53pm

Earlier this year, I made similar comparisons with Bikeability instructors working for local authorities in the East of England, and some made more per hour, but were paid fewer hours per day. Basically, it all came out roughly the same. The intructors that were paid more per hour were paid 11 hours per course (5-1/2 hours per day with 2 sessions in it), and the instructors who were paid for more working hours per day were paid a lower hourly rate.

The mileage allowance payment, however, should be £0.45 per mile. That's defined by HMRC http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/exb/a-z/m/m ... penses.htm

The best way to get more pay for teaching Bikeability is to register as an independent provider, and teach privately, or as a subcontractor. If there isn't sufficient busines in your area to support that, it may be possible to supplement your income with private tuition. That will depend on your work contract, willingness to drum up your own business, etc.

Some private Bikeability providers (companies) pay rather more than the local authorities.

p.s. the kids can be hard work, but I found it got a bit easier as I got used to it. And some groups are very satisfying to teach. :D
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

thirdcrank
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Aug 2012, 9:10pm

Vorpal wrote:... The mileage allowance payment, however, should be £0.45 per mile. That's defined by HMRC http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/exb/a-z/m/m ... nses.htm...


I think you have misunderstood the HMRC advice:

You are allowed to pay employees up to the approved amount of MAPs each year without having to report them to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) or pay any tax on them. These tax-exempt payments are known as 'approved mileage allowance payments' (AMAPs).


45p is the maximum that may be paid tax-free for the first 10,000 miles in a car or van. Although public authorities tend to match their mileage allowance to the Inland Revenue's rates, I don't think there is any statutory obligation to to pay exes at all. ie It depends on the contract of employment.

Vorpal
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby Vorpal » 1 Sep 2012, 8:10am

My understanding (as explained by a previous employer) is that the employer should pay the HMRC rate of £0.45 per mile (more if carrying passengers). Companies may pay *more* if they wish. But anything over £0.45 can be taxed as income. That's why it is an approved mileage allowance rate; that indicates that maximum amount that may be paid tax free.

I'm *not* an expert, but when I was teaching Bikeability, pointing out the current HMRC rate was enough to get paid £0.45, rather than £0.40 by my employer.

I also understand that someone who is not paid the £0.45 can claim for tax relief on the difference, though I suspect it might be the difference between paid mileage allowance and actual expenses, rather than the paid mileage allowance and the HMRC rate. I've never claimed for tax relief for mileage, so I don't know the details.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

thirdcrank
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Sep 2012, 9:29am

vorpal

I wouldn't argue with any of that. I only posted because your original excplanation seemed to imply that there was a general right to the HMRC rate, when their pronouncements only apply to how payments will be treated for tax.

In terms of cycle training, I presume that the majority of people affected are employed by local authorities or similar who have generally paid the HMRC rate for contractual reasons.

Vorpal
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby Vorpal » 1 Sep 2012, 9:41am

thirdcrank wrote: I only posted because your original excplanation seemed to imply that there was a general right to the HMRC rate, when their pronouncements only apply to how payments will be treated for tax.


I didn't mean it to sound that way. :oops:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

plodder73
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby plodder73 » 1 Sep 2012, 2:24pm

Thanks very much for the reply, the rate of 40p is accross the whole of the county council staff, not just Bikeability. I dont think its worth trying to change that as I am sure out of the thousands of employees someone will have questioned it. I am going to explore different options re going independant. At the end of the day though I do enjoy it, but it is bloody hard work! Without sounding snobby I work in an affluent rural area with posh and generally well behaved kids, god knows how someone in an inner city area copes, or are they all angels at 10/11? Definately wouldnt do that for £35 a day!!

Vorpal
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby Vorpal » 2 Sep 2012, 7:56am

plodder73 wrote:Without sounding snobby I work in an affluent rural area with posh and generally well behaved kids, god knows how someone in an inner city area copes, or are they all angels at 10/11? Definately wouldnt do that for £35 a day!!


Well, I never worked at a inner city school, but I did teach at one town school with a high proportion of transient students, students from families on benefits, etc. I generally found them to be more competent and to have a better understanding of the road environment than at more affluent schools, so some aspects of teaching were a bit better. They were less likely to have road-worthy bikes, though. I got the LA to hold a Dr. Bike session before the Bikeability &asked the teahcers to encourage Bikeability students to take their bikes. The only place I had eny problems with behaviour was a small village school.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

plodder73
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby plodder73 » 2 Sep 2012, 10:45am

Vorpal. thanks for the message . Re your above post I know what you mean at the one school we have worked in a "busier" area, the kids were definately more confident and able on the roads thats preumable because they use them more and they dont rely on Mummy in the Chelsea tractor to run them everwhere. I am hoping other instructors will give me some idea of what an average days pay is, then I can at least make representations to the powers that be or otherwise move on. Thanks again

mac111051
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby mac111051 » 2 Sep 2012, 12:19pm

The council gets a grant of £40 a child, multiply that by the number of children you are teaching take of what the instructors get paid and I would be asking the council were the rest of the money is going, for a qualified instructor with the responsibility of taking 9 and 10 year old children out on the road to ride bikes in traffic, £6.20 an hour is disgusting , our friend works as a playground assistant and gets more than that, you should be on a minimum of £10 an hour

plodder73
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby plodder73 » 3 Sep 2012, 12:04pm

Thanks mac, we always work at full ratio so 1 to 6. So council gets £240 per 6 children, it pays 14hrs x 6.20 which is £86.80, pus lets say £15 travelling expenses, net profit per 6 children is about £140. Sometimes 4 of us do 24 kids so thats about £560 per session profit!!! Think I am going to organise a rebellion.

They wonder why they struggle
1. To find new recruits
2. To get existing instructors to work.

I know the subject of pay has been raised by others, their argument is "you knew the rate of pay when you applied" which is true but what I didnt know was the level of responsibility and mentally tiring it is.

keepontriking
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby keepontriking » 3 Sep 2012, 1:45pm

This is why going through local authorities is wrong especially when they use a government grant to contract a larger training organisation to undertake the provision.
The Instructor ends up at the bottom of the pecking order as both the Training Provider and the Local Authority skim off a slice of the government grants.

Instead this needs to be going into actual training provision, not lining pockets of middlemen and Council coffers.

keepontriking
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby keepontriking » 3 Sep 2012, 1:49pm

It gets worse too when the Local Authority uses government grant money to pay a Training Provider (sometimes remotely based) to organise ancilliary events, such as rides and promotions.

To top off the unfairness the Local Authority then touts for unpaid volunteers to undertake the work and again LA and TP pocket the funds.

IThe prime aim often seems to be the moving government cycling grants into pockets rather than into training.

andmoreagain
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Re: How much do you instructors get paid/expenses

Postby andmoreagain » 6 Sep 2012, 11:00am

Our LA pays just over £8/hr including travel time and 45p/mile car mileage and 15p bike mileage which is probably a relatively good deal. However we do end up spending a lot of our own time (unpaid) filling in forms, replying to e mails and ringing schools. Although cycle training is very rewarding it is very badly paid for the level of responsibility in what can be such a high risk enviornment.

As someone else said, a way to make more money is to register as in independent provider - BUT the whole system is stacked against independents as we cannot claim the £40/child government grant so how can we compete with the LA's? If I was paid £40 for every child I trained I would be very happy and would happily do all of the admin involved.