At the risk of sounding controversial....

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vanorak
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At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby vanorak » 14 Apr 2013, 1:38am

I've lost track of how many dinnerhours I've missed fixing Giros (detanglers) on cheap BMXs, or have had to tell an otherwise excellent trainee that they cannot continue because their brakes are defective (or missing). While most instructors will endeavour to accommodate the trainee if they turn up the following week with a roadworthy bike, at the end of the day, they are going to ride whether their brakes work properly or not. I'm well aware of the Law in terms of knowingly permitting a bike with defective brakes to be ridden on the road, but putting the legalities aside for a moment, if one considers that this may be the only realistic opportunity for a child to undertake road training, if he/she can demonstrate sufficient control, and stop safely when required, surely it's in their interests to participate?

Level 1 requires that trainees stop quickly with control....if they can do this with only one brake then why not allow them to benefit from Level 2 training?
Please don't respond by quoting the Law http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/05/04/the-rules-of-bike-brakes/;

Vorpal
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby Vorpal » 14 Apr 2013, 7:36am

I think that it is important that young cyclists know what is and isn't legal and that they should keep their bikes to that standard.

IMO, a better solution is to have a 'Dr. Bike' day at the school, or nearby a couple of weeks before Bikeability, and recommend that Bikeability participants bring their bikes. Being clear about what will be required in advance may also help. Trainees that do not have roadworthy bikes can often borrow them. Some exceptional schools also make loaners available for Bikeability courses.

Allowing trainees to break the law teaches them nothing except that it's okay to break the law.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Si
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby Si » 14 Apr 2013, 9:53am

I'd not let anyone ride in one of my sessions with an illegal or a dodgy brake. As said, you legitimise law breaking (although I guess that it could be argued that we do that anyway: have you ever turfed any one off a ride for not having a full set of pedal reflectors?), but also, you open yourself up to both litigation and losing your accreditation, and, more importantly, they might be able to demonstrate stopping with one brake but what happens if the cable should snap and they don't have a second brake to rely on? After all, if the bike is in a bad enough state for one brake to be missing, then the chances are that the other brake won't be working too good and may have a ropey cable.

And yes, I sympathise with the amount of time wasting that goes on in fixing people's bikes for them....I've got draconian about it now: if your bike isn't in a satisfactory condition the second we are due to start then you are not riding - all the faffing just spoils it for everyone else who has made the effort to be ready to go. Of course, I only do adults and families at the moment - if you are in school doing bikeability then I can see how things might be different.

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meic
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby meic » 14 Apr 2013, 9:58am

Si wrote:I'd not let anyone ride in one of my sessions with an illegal or a dodgy brake. As said, you legitimise law breaking (although I guess that it could be argued that we do that anyway: have you ever turfed any one off a ride for not having a full set of pedal reflectors?), but also, you open yourself up to both litigation and losing your accreditation, and, more importantly, they might be able to demonstrate stopping with one brake but what happens if the cable should snap and they don't have a second brake to rely on? After all, if the bike is in a bad enough state for one brake to be missing, then the chances are that the other brake won't be working too good and may have a ropey cable.

And yes, I sympathise with the amount of time wasting that goes on in fixing people's bikes for them....I've got draconian about it now: if your bike isn't in a satisfactory condition the second we are due to start then you are not riding - all the faffing just spoils it for everyone else who has made the effort to be ready to go. Of course, I only do adults and families at the moment - if you are in school doing bikeability then I can see how things might be different.


Wow, you give night time courses as well.
Yma o Hyd

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Si
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby Si » 14 Apr 2013, 3:26pm

Evening after work ones which might mean riding in the gloom in the Spring or Autumn, especially with the weather as it is now.

I should point out that these aren't formal NS bikeability courses, rather they are organised, and tightly controlled rides that go hand in hand with a parallel bikeability program and allow the clients to further their experience.

Likewise, we are also doing commuting training, which of course will have a good chance of having riding in the dark in it.

Remember - cycle training isn't just for kids or only in schools - and although I realise that the OP was talking about school work, I think the same should apply to any training course!

greyingbeard
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby greyingbeard » 5 May 2015, 10:50pm

I did not let any bike on the road with defective brakes. Lost of lot of tea-breaks and lunches sorting the problems, one cant expect mummy to have a clue especially when daddy isnt there/does drugs/in jail etc. Not being sexist a lot of daddys dont have a clue about man-stuff either.

Can you live with yourself if an innocent child goes under a lorry due to poor brakes, and you said it was ok ?

John Holiday
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby John Holiday » 20 May 2015, 5:09pm

Agree that you should not permit defective cycle to be used. Is not the answer, to get them to borrow another bike for the road session?
One gets a lot of 'defective' bikes,many of which need a bit of work to get useable.
Last year we had one boy arrived on a BMX (with note signed that he had roadworthy bike!) with only one pedal & no brakes.
When asked, he demonstrated how he rode it & put his foot against front wheel to stop it!
We complemented him on his 'skills' & told him to go and borrow someone else's bike!

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pjclinch
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Re: At the risk of sounding controversial....

Postby pjclinch » 22 May 2015, 1:35pm

John Holiday wrote:Agree that you should not permit defective cycle to be used. Is not the answer, to get them to borrow another bike for the road session?


It's a partial answer, some of the people, some of the time.

If you've got a spare bike that's a sensible size and the rider is happy on it, sure. However, some riders are unsteady at the best of times, and putting them on another bike means it's no longer the best of times. I lent my Brom to a lad who'd got a puncture on the way to school, no problems at all. Next session a girl had no bike, but she just wasn't happy on the Brom.

In the Ideal World we'd have a fleet of multiply sized Islabikes Beinns with several spares and attendant mechanic, but sadly this is Planet Earth, UK, 2015...

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...