Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bike c

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Philip Benstead
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Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bike c

Postby Philip Benstead » 4 Dec 2014, 7:31pm

Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bike carry out repairs

E.g.
Mend puncture
Replace brake or gear cables
Replace or shorten chains
Replace tyres
Replace freewheels
Etc.

If the answer to any of the above is yes, then I suspect your CTC Cycle activity provider insurance will not cover you.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
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Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
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pjclinch
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby pjclinch » 9 Dec 2014, 10:42am

Repairs, no. Minor fettles, such as brake barrel adjusters to make them actually work, saddle height so they can pedal without their knees hitting their chins, yes, but as limited as reasonably possible. Aside from any liability issues it's just inviting all the available time to be sucked out of the session.

If we can't change anything then we'd probably not be able to adjust helmets and if there's any requirement for a "correctly fitted" one (and I know NS 1 says Trainees wearing a helmet should understand how to fit and adjust it, but hah bloody hah to that) you're pretty much saying half the class will have to sit out on some days.

Pete.
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mjr
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby mjr » 9 Dec 2014, 12:08pm

Mending punctures and fixing cables yes, but always under the supervision and consent of the rider affected. Replacing bigger bits - probably not at the event unless it's essential to getting them home.

So what are the other options for insurance? The group takes out public liability insurance from £130ish/year (example http://www.caseinsurance.co.uk/select/Main.aspx but other brokers are similar), or each volunteer takes out personal public liability insurance from £25ish/year?

It's a shame there's not some sort of club that group-buys insurance suitable for cycling events :twisted:
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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John Holiday
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby John Holiday » 31 Dec 2014, 4:48pm

Major repairs - no, but have always felt that we are there to encourage youngsters to ride, so will always try and get their cycle useable.
One exception was when the boy turned up with one peddle and no brakes despite a parent signing to say they had a "roadworthy" bike!
It was suggested that he borrow a cycle from someone else.

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Si
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby Si » 1 Jan 2015, 12:54pm

One exception was when the boy turned up with one peddle and no brakes despite a parent signing to say they had a "roadworthy" bike!


Only the one like this? You must live somewhere posh :lol:

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pjclinch
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby pjclinch » 4 Jan 2015, 10:01am

One lad had a pedal fall off during his assessment... Luckily he was at the taller end of P7 and I was on the Brom, so I popped down the saddle and ran/scooted after him with his bike for the remainder of the round.

The rise of the BSO has a lot to answer for: they're dogs to work on and ride, and thanks to the big list of "features" for less than £100 are doing a fair bit to convince parents that bikes should be cheap toys, which becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stuff like streamers are ghastly, but at least they don't weigh much.

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Si
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby Si » 5 Jan 2015, 8:14pm

Oh, I like the ones with streamers (assuming that you mean tassels on the ends of the handlebars?), esp if they've a wicker basket at the front and a seat for dolls behind the saddle. Also, I notice that a child mounted on such a bike often gets much more room from overtaking cars.

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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby pjclinch » 7 Jan 2015, 9:58pm

I have a wicker basket on my MTB, which is used primarily for Go-Ride coaching. Partly it's a bit of a joke, partly it's dead handy for carting wee plastic cones, some tools, a first aid kit and an extra jacket about the place (and my lid on the way there and back) where everything's easier to get to than a rucksack, and partly it helps encourage kids to see that the engine is more important than the bodywork.

Showing any of the aspirant speed demons a clean pair of heels on the Brom in a playground works well too, because they don't understand gearing, misunderstand wheel size, and have no concept of rock'ard Marathons rolling a bit better than half-flat knobblies, so obviously I must be Superman! :wink:

Pete.
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mr_cellophane
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby mr_cellophane » 26 Jan 2015, 8:38pm

When I was assisting at a school the leader told me I shouldn't have turned a set of forks the right way round.

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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby pjclinch » 27 Jan 2015, 12:41pm

mr_cellophane wrote:When I was assisting at a school the leader told me I shouldn't have turned a set of forks the right way round.


Your alternative option would have been to say it wasn't fit for the road and insist it be left out of the session.

In Scotland it's a FAQ at Cycling Scotland's Bikeability site:

Am I allowed to fix or adjust trainees' bikes?
Some local authorities' policies and insurance prohibit instructors from making any adjustments to trainees' bikes (including adjusting seat heights), unless they have the appropriate qualifications. Please check the policy in your area with your local authority co-ordinator.


Reminds me, I ought to check with P&K but there isn't actually anyone who can give me a proper answer in post as yet...

Pete.
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby Vorpal » 27 Jan 2015, 9:03pm

I have to admit that I never asked about whether I should make adjustments to trainees' bikes. I just did what was sensible. Other times that I asked fro clarifications, I didn't like the answers!
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pjclinch
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby pjclinch » 28 Jan 2015, 9:24am

Vorpal wrote:I have to admit that I never asked about whether I should make adjustments to trainees' bikes. I just did what was sensible. Other times that I asked fro clarifications, I didn't like the answers!


A pal ended up ignoring the instructor ratios and minimums one time because if he didn't it would mean no training in the school for that year, which he figured was worse than the risk of doing by himself. It's not a nice place to be, knowing in the event the sky does fall in your head is right in the firing line.

For mechanical issues, we have been rescued by our schedules which is half a class in the morning and the other half in the afternoon. When someone's forgotten a bike, or it's a wreck, they've borrowed one from the other set.

Pete.
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jan 2015, 9:28am

For the schools that were cooperative, we held a Dr. Bike at the school a week or so before training. Of course, not all students remembered to bring their bikes, but it meant that we got to check a few over in advance (with an authorised mechanic in attendance). Not only did it reduce our repair rate on the day, but it also served as a reminder that there would be Bikeability training. That meant higher attendance and fewer children borrowing their classmates' bikes :)
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Si
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Re: Do any of you whilst undertaking cycle training or Dr Bi

Postby Si » 17 Aug 2015, 12:35pm

I've recently sent a query about what was covered by the insurance. Got two answers:

query:
I renewed my Cycle Activities Provider insurance with you last week (thanks for sending the new documents promptly). I notice that the documentation has changed a little, under the Dr Bike bit it says that I am insured to carry out minor maintenace*/repair tasks on people's bikes. I wonder if you could define what exactly is covered by this please? To my mind 'minor' would include such things as fixing punctures, indexing gears, replacing brake blocks and cables, adjusting bike fit, etc. Would this be correct? If not, what does it include exactly?


*actually it doesn't say that, it says: "minor adjustments, eg Dr Bike"...I inferred that Dr Bike includes these as it always has when I've seen people doing it.

CTC:
The wording is deliberately vague as it's not possible to list precisely what would and wouldn't be covered. To a degree, you have to use some common sense and judge what you think is reasonable. If you have any doubt, it's probably best not to do the adjustment/repair and refer the rider to a qualified mechanic.


me to CTC:
I'm a bit bemused by your answer. Basically you are telling me that I can only find out what I am insured to do once someone has made a claim against me and I take it to the insurer (who, because of the deliberately vague way it's written will say that I'm not covered to do anything so it's not their problem). I'm not convinced that this is ideal! I'm no insurance or legal expert but surely selling someone a policy which deliberately doesn't state what they are covered to do is somewhat dodgy isn't it?


CTC:
You will find most insurance works like this - it's based on what is reasonable and our policies have always had the following paragraph included:

CTC believes that the insurance
provided meets the needs of cycle activity
providers. CTC has not assessed
individual needs for insurance and you
will not receive advice or
recommendations from CTC about your
insurance needs.

It would be difficult, if not impossible, to specify all the exact conditions under which you would definitely be covered. If in doubt, Butterworths are the only people who can advise legally.


Lady at Butterworths...paraphrased phone call as they didn't want to correspond via email:
I don't know much about bikes but...adjustments not maintenance: as long as you aren't replacing parts and are improving the bike then it is an adjustment

So I asked if, say, repositioning brake pads is OK and she says yes if it makes the bike safer. But replacing a brake pad is not OK.
Not sure about 'replacing' the air in a tyre - but it's a good excuse not to pump any more up :wink:

Thus, in answer to the OP:
Mend puncture - grey area, but maybe yes if you are not replacing tyre/tube
Replace brake or gear cables - no
Replace or shorten chains - replace - no, shorten - yes (I think)
Replace tyres - no
Replace freewheels - no

but you could tell them how to do it themselves!