feedback about moderation

Anything about use of this forum : NOT about cycling
reohn2
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby reohn2 » 1 Jan 2021, 7:33pm

mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The Brexit thread was locked AFAICS was locked because it took up so much of the moderators time,time which is precious to moderators more than other forum members because they also want to enjoy the forum as well as having to constantly be moderating immoderate posts

If the mods would tell offenders they have offended (as stated in the rules reminder) and ban the repeat offenders from topic or board for a while, they might learn and it would not take up so much mod time in the long run. Giving the Tea Room a less partisan name would also probably help stop one group seeing it as "their" space and taking up a lot of mod time with their defences.

There are also more volunteers offering to mod, so I don't accept that lack of mod time was a reasonable justification for the action, especially with it being accompanied by a "please find another forum" door slam message from a mod of the same wing as those that repeatedly call for discussion of the topic to be stopped.

We differ on this issue,mainly because I let the moderators,who give up their free time to do a job I freely admit I can't much less want to,get on with it.
If you wish to change things you could always become a moderator yourself rather than taking things up with me on the forum perhaps if you discussed things with the moderators by PM in private.
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mjr
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby mjr » 1 Jan 2021, 9:41pm

Tangled Metal wrote:We obviously differ in that opinion. You could argue politics is in everything or every hobby but other hobbyist forums have no politics and it works well.

That is simply untrue: other topical forums have politics!

PS I do think people need to state that what they type is in their opinion more often. You state cycling is political like it's a fact, it's not it's the political topics that are political IMHO. Where's the politics in gear ratios or thread count on tyre choices?

Maybe it's not in those narrow technical topics, but once we are discussing which manufacturer, their practices come into it, then it is not far to their politics, the host country of the manufacture, or the politics of consumer power.

The politics are in Brexit thread, in campaigning threads which admittedly the latter is the one area of cycling that has political component. However even that could leave partisanship attitudes behind.

Neither cycle campaigning or Brexit follows neat party lines. You can find for or against each in most parties. I wonder if that is part of the problem with both.

reohn2 wrote:If you wish to change things you could always become a moderator yourself rather than taking things up with me on the forum perhaps if you discussed things with the moderators by PM in private.

The mods by PM are what you might expect: some discuss, some defend, one ignores.

My offer to become a moderator stands, but it seems the admins prefer to appoint a "white lives matter" advocate and stand mute on the other matters.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby PDQ Mobile » 1 Jan 2021, 10:10pm

Tangled Metal wrote:So someone, other than CG, made a decision about the Brexit thread that you disagree with and, with others no doubt, feel wasn't neutral, right?

First off I'm biased because I think there's too much political discussion on this cycling forum anyway so personally I am glad the Brexit thread was shut down. With that declaration up front I would ask you what makes you think there's bias in the decision to lock the thread? I've not time to read this whole thread to find out. Could you bias be part of your opinion? Are you neutral in coming to your opinion?

I've dropped in and out of Brexit threads on several forums and I almost universally have the opinion that their only use now is to argue among a small group of hard core and totally partisan participants without much real benefit or outcomes worth viewing. I've stopped visiting them. Occasionally I'll drop in if something actually happens but always disappointed across all the forums I visit. What is the point of serving without the chance of changing others views? It seems to me more a form of bloodsport where it you can't get the stronger, regular ones you'll pick off the weaker, visitors to the thread instead. It's the internet warrior thread full of men trying to assert themselves over others. I'm very cynical about it and see those polarised, political threads as evidence to why political threads shouldn't be in a cycling forum.

I have already stated those reasons in this thread.
It is not something I wish to keep repeating ad nauseum and if you haven't read it, with respect, that's not my problem.
I wrote it once and Admin has admitted "being biased". And that's fair and honest enough.
For it is not my wish to mount a full scale personal assault here, merely point out what I thought a particularly bad decision for all the wrong reasons.

The contentious issue is/was whether the B thread was locked for moderating reasons (for which no evidence has been forthcoming), or for political "expedience"?
The general drift probably becoming ever more distasteful to "Admin".

That is, and always was, the nub here.


Nobody forces anyone to read insignificant ordinary people's views on any subject on this fairly small forum (though it is often very interesting and diverse place).
And nobody minds at all if people don't read stuff!

However I do value my small bit of freedom of speech. And I really do detest censorship or suppression in any form.
A right of reply is sacrosanct.

The "Tea Shop" is an open discussion forum?? "Open" being the operative word.
Politics has a rightful and reasonable place within it??
I would say yes.

I thought the "B thread" had again become quite interesting actually, as the "great" day approached.
Real and substantive had long overtaken "gut feeling".
It was locked, IMV, for that very reason.
The same reason why, I think, that the, "What Has The EU Ever Done For You" thread was TOTALLY deleted before the Referendum.
An abuse of power and privilege?

My view is that locking the last B thread was done because the main thrust of the thread had become noticeably positive about EU membership and that the problems arising through leaving had become more obvious.

I suggest that you, "Tangled", go and have a look at that last locked Brexit thread before you comment again. For you will find a pretty reasonable, sometimes quite interesting, and polite discussion.
((With a rather personal, but totally unrelated to Brexit, little spat, (and quite unmoderated)) in the later pages).


So how much actual time was being spent moderating that last B thread in comparison to others??
((The seemingly innocuous (no pun etc) "Vaccine" thread attracted a notorious mocking strife causer immediately, and was quite heavily moderated on the very first page!))

Time spent on "spam" is totally and completely irrelevant to the discussion here.

Abusive language is automatically detected on the forum?
And other forum users flag what they consider offensive to be looked at by a moderator.

So where is this supposed taking up of too much time??
And who or what caused the B thread to be locked?

These are questions that have not been satisfactorily answered in my opinion.
......
<SNIP - please stop the Brexit stuff. Thank you : Graham >

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mjr
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby mjr » 2 Jan 2021, 11:00am

PDQ Mobile wrote:The contentious issue is/was whether the B thread was locked for moderating reasons (for which no evidence has been forthcoming), or for political "expedience"?

I suspect that thread probably was taking up a lot of mod time, but I also suspect that was because the mods willing to moderate it were not allowed to ban repeat offenders from the thread or section for some reason.

The "Tea Shop" is an open discussion forum?? "Open" being the operative word.
Politics has a rightful and reasonable place within it??
I would say yes.

While it may be open in theory, sharing the name of a particular political faction means they and their sympathisers see it as their place. Rename it! I bet if it had been labelled "The Momentum Room - a place to spin your wheels" then it would have been relabelled years ago!

<SNIP - please stop the Brexit stuff. Thank you : Graham >

You first: give us our citizenship back.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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thirdcrank
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jan 2021, 11:07am

mjr wrote:.... sharing the name of a particular political faction means they and their sympathisers see it as their place. Rename it! I bet if it had been labelled "The Momentum Room - a place to spin your wheels" then it would have been relabelled years ago! ...


At the risk of a red herring, I'll admit to being baffled here. Is there a political grouping called the Tea Shop? I've heard of Tea Party btw.

(I hope I've got my quotes properly attributed.)

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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby mjr » 2 Jan 2021, 11:26am

thirdcrank wrote:At the risk of a red herring, I'll admit to being baffled here. Is there a political grouping called the Tea Shop? I've heard of Tea Party btw.

Tea Party groups hold what they call "workshops" (actually more like activist briefings) which unsurprisingly get called Tea Shops. Lately these have resurged by supporting/infiltrating (which is debatable!) anti-lockdown groups.
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thirdcrank
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jan 2021, 11:30am

Thanks for that. Perhaps it should be renamed. "Tap room" might be an accurate description, although it's not something to be aspired to.

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mjr
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby mjr » 2 Jan 2021, 11:49am

thirdcrank wrote:Thanks for that. Perhaps it should be renamed. "Tap room" might be an accurate description, although it's not something to be aspired to.

My suggestions were "Coffee Shop" and "Cake Shop" but maybe CUK is till touchy about CTC being nicknamed "Coffee To Cake"
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thirdcrank
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jan 2021, 1:22pm

The fear might be usurpation by fruit cakes.

Jdsk
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Jdsk » 2 Jan 2021, 2:11pm

Very good.

Jonathan

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mjr
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby mjr » 2 Jan 2021, 6:04pm

thirdcrank wrote:The fear might be usurpation by fruit cakes.

No change there, then! ;)
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slowster
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby slowster » 12 Jan 2021, 9:52am

In the absence of a response from Carlton green or the moderators which addresses the substance of the issues I have raised, I have emailed CUK and asked them to consider the matter.

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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby admin » 12 Jan 2021, 9:56am

The matter is being considered.

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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Carlton green » 12 Jan 2021, 8:05pm

slowster wrote:In the absence of a response from Carlton green or the moderators which addresses the substance of the issues I have raised, I have emailed CUK and asked them to consider the matter.


As I recall I made a post on January 1st which collectively responded to those members who were opposed to my appointment, might I respectfully suggest that you return to that statement. As for answering the comments of individual members I am free to do that if I choose, but if I don’t wish to become involved in further discussion then that is allowable too. With the exceptions that people have recently taken I’m simply not getting further involved, they are old threads and I left them after I’d made a comment or two on them. Obviously I’m disappointed that my comments offended some people; I always try to post constructively and to be inoffensive, as below my only interest is in constructive conversation.

You might notice that my name is no longer in green. That does now mean that I now free challenge any points made by any other member but, to be honest, I really see no value in getting involved in heated discussions ... and I avoid the overheated ‘discussions’ on this forum that so regularly have to be heavily edited by the Moderation Team. As and when I post it is for the exchange of information and for friendly discussion, I’ve no interest in anything else. Sometimes I will agree with another member’s views and sometimes I will not, sometimes I’m perused that their point of view is better than mine and sometimes someone will instead decide that mine is the better view. Whatever the exchange so long as we are all tolerant of each other then discussion can continue for the benefit of all.

Doubtless you will be pleased at my loss of colour and perhaps I should be annoyed at what has happened but I am not, well other than it’s a pity that the hard working volunteers who work as Moderators and Admin now have additional and undeserved hassle to cope with. You are doubtless well intentioned; ultimately you and a few others have just done what you considered to be right according to your principles and now it is for others to judge what will happen next. I now have nothing else to say on this matter.

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Paulatic
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Paulatic » 13 Jan 2021, 9:19pm

It’s been lovely since 24 Dec 2020, 5:56pm :wink:
Moderation or holiday time will tell.
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