Covid Booster Thread moderation

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slowster
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Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by slowster »

Vorpal wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 8:47am
slowster wrote: 16 Nov 2021, 9:57pm
Moderators need to be much more pro-active is stopping such untrue, misleading and harmful posts.
Please keep in mind that we are volunteers. We are not on here all day every day.
I do appreciate that. I should have been clearer that by 'pro-active' I did not mean being quicker to act on those subsequent posts. My point was rather that whatever action was taken at the time the first post was deleted, evidently it was insufficient to deter the poster from doubling down and effectively posting the same statement and following up with a couple of other completely untrue statements about the vaccine. Maybe that particular individual would not have been deterred by any warning, but my perception is that this pattern has been repeated by others who are/were relatively new members and joined the forum during the pandemic.

So maybe whatever warnings you and the other moderators are giving when you delete the first such post by relatively new members are insufficient, and maybe a blunter first and final warning might be a more effective deterrent.

Moreover, since it seems more likely to be new members who do this, it might help if a prominent warning about posting untrue/misleading statement about Covid and vaccines, and the penalty for doing so, were displayed when registering. That itself might not deter, but it would mean that posters have been given very fair and very explicit warning before their first breach, which should reduce the subsequent need to explain and give further warnings. I appreciate that amending the registration page to do that would be more work for admin, but it might save trouble in the long run since current predictions suggest the pandemic is likely to last at least another year and possibly significantly longer (https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid ... ts-1297889).
Vorpal
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Vorpal »

I've split this off, so as to avoid derailing the other thread further.
slowster wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 5:42pm
So maybe whatever warnings you and the other moderators are giving when you delete the first such post by relatively new members are insufficient, and maybe a blunter first and final warning might be a more effective deterrent.

Moreover, since it seems more likely to be new members who do this, it might help if a prominent warning about posting untrue/misleading statement about Covid and vaccines, and the penalty for doing so, were displayed when registering. That itself might not deter, but it would mean that posters have been given very fair and very explicit warning before their first breach, which should reduce the subsequent need to explain and give further warnings. I appreciate that amending the registration page to do that would be more work for admin, but it might save trouble in the long run since current predictions suggest the pandemic is likely to last at least another year and possibly significantly longer (https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid ... ts-1297889).
It seems to be new members, because when they do it, they are given a warning & either comply, or repeat it and get banned, either temporarily, or permanently.

Graham was more inclined to just ban folks. I am generally inclined to give them benefit of doubt, and assume that they did not read the rules, unless I can confirm that they are someone who was previously banned.

I am working on a revised version of the registration page.
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slowster
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by slowster »

The posters do all seem to me to be very similar in their behaviour and in their posting styles, including how they engage with other posters in a thread and especially in how they conduct an argument.

It is discriminatory, but in your shoes I would have zero tolerance for those new members who have joined during the pandemic and follow the same pattern of behaviour within a few months (or even just weeks), culminating in making anti-vax statements or similar. I say that because it is an abuse of the forum, not least because often to a large extent they do not engage with other posters and do not argue, rather they just use the forum as a platform to say what they think.

Something that struck me afterwards was how one of those posters said to Jdsk that Jdsk's statement that vaccines provided 'massive protection' was "just your [Jdsk's] opinion". It was such a stupid comment that I mentally dismissed it at the time, but, thinking about it further, it encapsulates the level of engagement and argument that these posters have with others on the forum. They argue in exactly the same superficial way they would with someone over a pint in the pub, i.e. not actually arguing but just dismissing what other people say and simply stating and re-stating their own opinions, which are all they are really interested in.

(Edited to add: "just dismissing what other people say ")
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Vorpal »

That is a fair enough comment & I will give it some thought.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Hellhound
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Hellhound »

I was banned.I was the poster Slowster is referring to.
I have now had a post removed asking why my posts contained 'misinformation and incorrect details' removed.How can ones opinion based on what one sees be 'misinformation'.I offered no statistics or wiki links just an opinion.A regular poster,with a very high post count who I suspect reports my posts,regularly links to Wiki.Wiki is notoriously unreliable but that seems to be OK.Questioning is not misinformation it is just questioning.It's not anti-vax or covid scepticism it's just questioning.
It seems that this is only an issue on Covid threads.There are literally dozens of 'opinions' on the Boris thread but they are OK.
As I stated on the Covid Booster thread I won't bother with any Covid thread as it seems debate is not allowed.

So why am I posting on a Covid thread again?
I have also had a post disappear on the Plymouth Gin thread from last night.No reason,just deleted.I suspect the person I quoted reported it.I thought it was a valid question as the poster,with a very high post count,does seem to question anyone who disagrees with them is a faux-polite manner.
I see a pattern developing with this particular poster and myself.
I will also avoid interaction with that poster.
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mjr
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by mjr »

Hellhound wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 9:06amHow can ones opinion based on what one sees be 'misinformation'.I offered no statistics or wiki links just an opinion.A regular poster,with a very high post count who I suspect reports my posts,regularly links to Wiki.Wiki is notoriously unreliable but that seems to be OK.Questioning is not misinformation it is just questioning.It's not anti-vax or covid scepticism it's just questioning.
I don't know the posts involved but maybe it stated opinions too forcefully, without enough "I think" or "I feel" qualifiers, so it could be misread as making general factual claims.

Or maybe they were leading questions, assuming or implying that certain things you've seen to be generally true rather than outliers. The problem is that a lot of deniers and antivaxxers use baseless leading questions to spread their ideas and waste a lot of advocate effort. Basic asymmetric guerilla infowar.

This is a difficult topic. Sensitive. Lives are literally at risk. There is good evidence being collected, research being done. It is worth checking one's own observations against that evidence on sites like ourworldindata or worldometers or the various journals that have made their covid articles free during the pandemic, before asking questions that could be seen as helping the Russian bots and similar bad actors. I think the few things that UK experts got wrong, such as droplets and masks, would have still been able to be questioned after looking for such research.
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Vorpal »

Hellhound wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 9:06am I was banned.I was the poster Slowster is referring to.
Actually, slowster was referring to another poster, who was permanently banned.
Hellhound wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 9:06am I have now had a post removed asking why my posts contained 'misinformation and incorrect details' removed.How can ones opinion based on what one sees be 'misinformation'.I offered no statistics or wiki links just an opinion.A regular poster,with a very high post count who I suspect reports my posts,regularly links to Wiki.Wiki is notoriously unreliable but that seems to be OK.Questioning is not misinformation it is just questioning.It's not anti-vax or covid scepticism it's just questioning.
It seems that this is only an issue on Covid threads.There are literally dozens of 'opinions' on the Boris thread but they are OK.
As I stated on the Covid Booster thread I won't bother with any Covid thread as it seems debate is not allowed.

So why am I posting on a Covid thread again?
I have also had a post disappear on the Plymouth Gin thread from last night.No reason,just deleted.I suspect the person I quoted reported it.I thought it was a valid question as the poster,with a very high post count,does seem to question anyone who disagrees with them is a faux-polite manner.
I see a pattern developing with this particular poster and myself.
I will also avoid interaction with that poster.
I sent you a pm explaining. Questioning is not just questioning if it contains misinformation. The same with opinion.

It's only an issue with covid threads because that is the basis on which we allow discussion on that particular topic. It is a public health crisis & we will not permit the spread of misinformation. If you want to post opinions that are counter to the scientific evidence on the efficacy of covid-19 vaccines, please do it elsewhere.

As for the Plymouth gin thread, a number of posts (not just yours) were removed on the basis that they were confrontational or aggressive, and the thread was spiralling into sniping, etc.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by thirdcrank »

I understand that the FA has introduced the sin-bin system in junior football so showing dissent can result in being sent off for eight minutes. I only discovered this at the weekend at an under 14's match when a player (probably 13 years old) was loudly slack gobbing the referee but was ignored. My son who has his coaching badges later explained the sin bin rule to me. The FA might do better introducing this for the "role models" who the younger players imitate.
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Hellhound
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Hellhound »

Vorpal wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 9:58am I sent you a pm explaining. Questioning is not just questioning if it contains misinformation. The same with opinion.
It's only an issue with covid threads because that is the basis on which we allow discussion on that particular topic. It is a public health crisis & we will not permit the spread of misinformation. If you want to post opinions that are counter to the scientific evidence on the efficacy of covid-19 vaccines, please do it elsewhere.
As for the Plymouth gin thread, a number of posts (not just yours) were removed on the basis that they were confrontational or aggressive, and the thread was spiralling into sniping, etc.
I didn't receive a PM.The only PM I received whilst banned was from another Forum member.No matter it's done now.
I have to disagree with you on questioning and misinformation.There is no misinformation just information.Questioning that information is how we debate and form opinions.
I will leave the Covid threads alone.It will be interesting to see how or if views change over the next couple of years.
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Mick F
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Mick F »

Hellhound wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 11:41pm I have to disagree with you on questioning and misinformation.There is no misinformation just information.Questioning that information is how we debate and form opinions.
Yep.
Utterly agree.

I've been moderated on here regarding this. Opinions aren't facts or misinformation, just formed personal opinions and are open to argument.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by thirdcrank »

Mick F wrote: 26 Nov 2021, 9:02am
Hellhound wrote: 25 Nov 2021, 11:41pm I have to disagree with you on questioning and misinformation.There is no misinformation just information.Questioning that information is how we debate and form opinions.
Yep.
Utterly agree.

I've been moderated on here regarding this. Opinions aren't facts or misinformation, just formed personal opinions and are open to argument.
I'm not going back to look, but IIRC you said on one covid thread something along the lines that you didn't feel well so you didn't want anybody arguing with what you had written. Although you are not officially a moderator, you have a moderator's powers which you use and you can see the stuff which is not visible to the general membership eg reports about posts.
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Mick F
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Mick F »

There are unarguable facts of course.
No-one could argue that I wasn't ill. It was a fact, pure and simple.

Facts is facts, and opinions are just opinions. Opinions are open to debate and argument.

I don't have Moderators Powers, just some small input, but it's true, I can see reports and act on them if I want. I tend to keep out of that though unless it's a cut and dried thing. I help out, that's all.

I'm a very blunt speaking northerner. A spade is a spade, or more likely with me, a big blunt shovel. I don't have a diplomatic bone in my body.
Mick F. Cornwall
thirdcrank
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by thirdcrank »

Then I'll speak bluntly too. You find it extremely difficult to recognise when you are wrong.
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Mick F
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by Mick F »

Maybe.

What bit was a I wrong about?
Mick F. Cornwall
thirdcrank
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Re: Covid Booster Thread moderation

Post by thirdcrank »

Mick F wrote: 26 Nov 2021, 10:37am Maybe.

What bit was a I wrong about?
Let's first recognise few people, including me, like to be wrong and that's particularly so if the contradiction is abrasive. Then, some things are factual so people may not like them, but they cannot rebut them.

Now, without going back to look and it may have been removed anyway, there was an exchange about "post covid." (I may have the spelling wrong but it will do here.) IIRC, you used the expression in a very normal way: post = subsequent or afterwards - and that's exactly what I and many others might have done without much thinking or medical knowledge. But, a forum member with particular expertise explained in a civil and informative manner that the expression now had a particular technical meaning in the circumstances of the pandemic. I think most people might take the line "Well, I never knew that" or similar, rather than using their dictionary to start digging.

Remember, you are used to specialist vocabulary. eg The arguably absurd use of the word "sheet" to refer to what the rest of us call "a rope." I fancy you wouldn't be slow to jump in if some hapless dockyard stanchion like me got it wrong.

If this was an isolated incident I'd not have gone toe-treading but it isn't. As an example which involved me and technical vocabulary, you may remember a thread about footpaths and footways; special vocabulary which has been flogged to death on here.

Signed: A friend
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