Stronger mod action against trolling

Anything about use of this forum : NOT about cycling

Is it trolling to say without proof that a group holds certain dislikeable views?

Yes
8
32%
No
10
40%
Abstain
2
8%
Whatever the mods want
5
20%
 
Total votes: 25

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meic
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby meic » 1 Mar 2017, 2:00pm

Though if you think that have one over powering all conquering argument, why should you waste time following up other people's petty sidetrack arguments that just dont matter?

You just keep repeating the killer argument, that the other side are trying so desperately to avoid.
Yma o Hyd

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661-Pete
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby 661-Pete » 1 Mar 2017, 3:03pm

One thing we seem to be agreed on (or at least, a lot of us seem to be agreed upon).
Here be trolls.
Question: once we accept that as fact, what to do about it? Build a bridge:
(a) to reach across towards the said troll(s)? or
(b) merely as a place for them to lurk under?

Image
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Vorpal
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby Vorpal » 1 Mar 2017, 3:36pm

I don't object to any open discussions about moderation, but please don't use this to imply anyone is trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please notify moderators, or make a formal complaint.

In general, even if I find someone's opinion offensive, as long as they follow forum guidelines (e.g. no name calling) I would rather have an open discussion than moderate posts.

There are, and always will be people who tread the line. As it stands, we have a similar number of people complaining that we restrict free speech to the number of people complaining that we do not moderate enough, so I figure the balance is reasonable.

Just because one person finds another person's opinions, repeated on multiple threads, tiresome doesn't make them a troll.

But if you prefer, we could all sit here, in our comfortable political agreement with one another and talk about gear inches and debate compact doubles versus triples. :wink:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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mjr
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby mjr » 1 Mar 2017, 5:09pm

Vorpal wrote:I don't object to any open discussions about moderation, but please don't use this to imply anyone is trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please notify moderators, or make a formal complaint.

Moderators have been notified multiple times. Reports are routinely closed with no noticeable action. The last time I did get a PM reply about a mod inaction has discouraged me from trying that again. Is there really no next step short of a formal complaint?

Vorpal wrote:In general, even if I find someone's opinion offensive, as long as they follow forum guidelines (e.g. no name calling) I would rather have an open discussion than moderate posts.

As would I, but I think some posts that don't follow forum guidelines (eg no trolling, no defamation) aren't being dealt with, so I wondered if a clearer statement that it's not OK should be added to the guidelines.

Vorpal wrote:Just because one person finds another person's opinions, repeated on multiple threads, tiresome doesn't make them a troll.

I agree. It's persistently posting lies about other people that makes them a troll.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby mjr » 1 Mar 2017, 5:11pm

meic wrote:Though if you think that have one over powering all conquering argument, why should you waste time following up other people's petty sidetrack arguments that just dont matter?

You just keep repeating the killer argument, that the other side are trying so desperately to avoid.

As seen a few times in the last few days, across several topics, people seem to get the serious hump if you ask them to actually answer a key question when they tried not to do so.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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meic
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby meic » 1 Mar 2017, 5:18pm

May be that it isnt a key question for them and they have things they would rather do with their time than follow somebody else's bidding.
I get pretty tired of people who try and manipulate others in this way. People should put up their own views and leave others to argue their own points in their own ways, rather than trying to control other people's arguments.
Yma o Hyd

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Graham
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby Graham » 1 Mar 2017, 5:52pm

Don't feed the trolls. Ignore them.
( Unfortunately, some nice people here just cannot restrain themselves from responding. , , , and so it goes on . . . )

Whether someone is trolling is a matter of judgement.

Perhaps we need one or more keen new moderators ?

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meic
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby meic » 1 Mar 2017, 5:56pm

Perhaps we need one or more keen new moderators ?
Will they be vetted to check they have the desired political allegiances?
If not they will continue to fail to do what is demanded of them.
Yma o Hyd

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mjr
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby mjr » 1 Mar 2017, 6:03pm

meic wrote:May be that it isnt a key question for them and they have things they would rather do with their time than follow somebody else's bidding.
I get pretty tired of people who try and manipulate others in this way. People should put up their own views and leave others to argue their own points in their own ways, rather than trying to control other people's arguments.

So, they should repeat their killer argument but doing so is to try and manipulate others!?

And I don't mean they completely ignore the question or explicitly decline to answer, I mean they respond to it without answering, like a politrickian.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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meic
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby meic » 1 Mar 2017, 6:25pm

Influence or persuade are different to manipulate.
Manipulate is making them do something which they had no intention of doing just because somebody is telling them what to do, where as influencing and persuading is what we have come to the forum to experience. Except of course for those who just will not listen to anything from somebody they deem to be on the other side.
Yma o Hyd

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Mick F
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby Mick F » 1 Mar 2017, 6:44pm

meic wrote:
Perhaps we need one or more keen new moderators ?
Will they be vetted to check they have the desired political allegiances?
If not they will continue to fail to do what is demanded of them.
I help out, and am a sort of "look-out".
I help to remove spam and approve and disapprove new posts .......... along with the others, and the mods.
I'm not a mod, but I help them moderate.

Dunno about political allegiances.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Mar 2017, 6:59pm

Perhaps Fonant could arrange it so that when somebody goes on a Foe list, they are treated to "I'm ignoring you-ooo-oooo" to this tune

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPgPyDBmY-k

Alternatively, in view of the posts about unanswered questions, it might be "When I'm trolling you- ooo-ooo, will you answer .....etc."

It's an internet cycling forum.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby roubaixtuesday » 1 Mar 2017, 7:09pm

Seems to me most of this is about a single member who posts material designed to provoke repeatedly on political threads.

Now, I'm sure that many people have, either consciously or otherwise put up provocative material on occasion.

But repeatedly, again and again? That's trolling. It repels people who want to engage constructively, leading to a downward spiral where only those who relish confrontation want to inhabit the forum.

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meic
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby meic » 1 Mar 2017, 7:21pm

If you are willing to look at it from only one side you could come to that conclusion.
Looking at it from the middle you might see that it was very much a two way affair and the balance of posts were against the "accused", he is guilty of having a minority opinion, not of being a troll.
Yma o Hyd

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ChrisOntLancs
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Re: Stronger mod action against trolling

Postby ChrisOntLancs » 1 Mar 2017, 7:28pm

661-Pete wrote:Certainly not! No offence given, none taken! :wink: It is, after all, supposed to be the 'rant' thread, it's an open invitation to forummers to o'er-step themselves.



ok cool, good, you said something about trading insults and i wasn't sure if it was aimed at me. yeah i've been using that thread to work on my diplomacy, and i'm only half joking there.

i see this site in a state of self assessment and i don't know why i tell myself you need the opinions of somebody that's only been listening for five minutes... to be honest, i'm just worried i'm this 'one person in particular' everybody is going on about.