Forum changes my wording

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Psamathe
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Psamathe » 12 Jun 2018, 1:12pm

Vorpal wrote:
Psamathe wrote:The important distinction is that "Br*x*t**rs" concisely describes a group holding a view without being derogatory whilst "R*m**n*rs" describes a group together with an insult (the merging on "moan" suggesting those supporting Remain are moaners). Hence the imbalance in the automated language filter.

Ian

The point is that they aren't a group holding a view. They are a group holding many views. And some correlate B r e x i t e e r with privateer or profiteer in the same way that the other terms suggests supporters of remain are moaners.

It didn't help that people using one term complained about t'other.

Just as "Conservatives" are or "Industrialists" or "Libertarians" or "Cyclists" or "Environmentalists". Is it right to ban a word because that group hold a range of different views?

The point is that "Br*x*t**rs" is not a derogatory term and "R*m**n*rs" is hence the reasons for a ban on the "R*m**n*rs" word but all sorts of "groups" hold a wide range of views with the group. The term is applicable to describing those who wish for the UK to leave the EU. Delve deeply into beliefs in any group of people and you'll find they all differ at some level and banning the words describing broad groups achieves nothing (whereas banning derogatory words does achieve something).

(Above comment applies to other responses also posted - so no point in repeating my thought)

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Psamathe » 12 Jun 2018, 1:13pm

Vorpal wrote:...
When someone begins a sentences with, "You B r e x i t e e r s..." it doesn't get better from there.

Same would apply to "You people wanting to leave the EU ...". Same would apply to sentences beginning "You Cyclists ..." - yet you have not banned the "Cyclists" word. etc.

Ian

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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby PDQ Mobile » 12 Jun 2018, 1:26pm

Well I don't see "Musketeer" or "Privateer" as particularly derogatory?

That we don't agree on Brexit is clear and understandable.
For the most part discussion and argument on here have been pretty civilized, given the enormity of the issue and the passions raised.

In truth we are talking about automated censorship, and I for one, don't like to see censorship in any form whatsoever.
My skin can take it!!

What I would like to know is who authorized the decision to censor that word on here??
Just so we all put our cards on the table, so to speak

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admin
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby admin » 12 Jun 2018, 2:23pm

The volunteer moderators moderate this Forum, in order to keep it a pleasant and useful place for discussion about cycling-related matters. The moderators often discuss issues amongst themselves, and sometimes with Cycling UK.

The banned words list is a crude tool, but one that the moderators find useful. Words are banned if they cause unpleasantness on the Forum, and are auto-replaced to save the moderators from having to edit posts manually.

Anyone who doesn't like the "censorship" here should note that there are many other cycling forums available on the Internet, with varying degrees of moderation.

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Audax67
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Audax67 » 12 Jun 2018, 2:26pm

I just typed in the dreaded N-word and hit Preview to see what would happen.

Go ahead, try it.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby mjr » 12 Jun 2018, 2:41pm

Vorpal wrote:When someone begins a sentences with, "You B r e x i t e e r s..." it doesn't get better from there.

I humbly suggest that the problem there isn't the B word, unlike the banned R word for which I struggle to see a non-pejorative usage. Someone opening "You Brexit voters..." is unlikely to end well either.
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby mjr » 12 Jun 2018, 2:41pm

Audax67 wrote:I just typed in the dreaded N-word and hit Preview to see what would happen.

Go ahead, try it.

Nazi. How dare you tell me what to do?
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Vorpal » 12 Jun 2018, 2:42pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:What I would like to know is who authorized the decision to censor that word on here??
Just so we all put our cards on the table, so to speak

Authorized? You mean like who is responsible for it? Moderators, of course!

And if an individual should admit responsibility, what then?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Audax67
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Audax67 » 12 Jun 2018, 2:59pm

Hang about. What's the R-word? Ruritanian?
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby PDQ Mobile » 12 Jun 2018, 3:53pm

Vorpal wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:What I would like to know is who authorized the decision to censor that word on here??
Just so we all put our cards on the table, so to speak

Authorized? You mean like who is responsible for it? Moderators, of course!

And if an individual should admit responsibility, what then?


Then we would know what is what.
And who is who.

So for example my views are painted on here for all to see.

My suspicion is that the edict to ban the word in question came from elsewhere.
A place where I have detected some considerable bias before.
The job, your volunteer job, is to moderate, but not be biased or over zealous when things are written that go against personal politics/belief.

A machine editing tool is a very powerful tool.
It always should be used with care and with that in mind.

If I or anyone else considers it's use overzealous then we should call it out.
That is the stuff democracy is made of.
There are too many half truths and outright lies rampant in our media. Let us be on our guard against bias in positions of power.

Anyone gonna put their hand up and say I did put the word change in place?

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Si
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Si » 12 Jun 2018, 3:55pm

Anyone who doesn't like the "censorship" here should note that there are many other cycling forums available on the Internet, with varying degrees of moderation.


would they then be fexiteers? (dons tin hat and runs for it)

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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby Thornyone » 12 Jun 2018, 3:58pm

admin wrote:Anyone who doesn't like the "censorship" here should note that there are many other cycling forums available on the Internet, with varying degrees of moderation.

I use this forum because I’m a paid-up member of Cycling UK, previously CTC, so I thought this was the natural place for me. Most of the posts I’ve put on myself or replied to, have been cycling-related, but a few have been of a more political and probably more contentious nature. If the Tea Room section of the forum allows such posts, then I think that the pro-censorship argument used here is regrettable. And if I use to term “Brexit**r”, it is entirely non-pejorative, just as I would use the term “remainer” to describe the opposite camp (I do not use the pejorative “**moaner”). To me “Brexit**r equals one who is in favour of the UK leaving the EU, “remainer” equals one who does not wish the UK to leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.

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mjr
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby mjr » 12 Jun 2018, 4:39pm

admin wrote:Anyone who doesn't like the "censorship" here should note that there are many other cycling forums available on the Internet, with varying degrees of moderation.

So noted, but this forum is usually one of the more reasonable and open, which is why the asymmetric nature of this automoderation setup (offensive R term banned, widely-used inoffensive one allowed; while an opposite offensive term is allowed but a much more widely-used inoffensive term is banned) is so puzzling.

Would the moderators at least agree to consider this asymmetry afresh, please? I suspect that would satisfy most people.

If not and the response to every question about moderation practice is going to become, essentially, "[rude word removed] off somewhere else" like on certain other forums, then I guess at least we can realise when it jumped the shark.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby admin » 12 Jun 2018, 4:55pm

Sheesh, folks, the phrase "mountains out of mole hills" springs to mind. Is this really causing you significant problems?

I'm sure that the moderators will re-consider the current list of rude word replacements. I can't promise that anything will change, though. That really depends on why these words were banned in the first place, and whether anyone can come up with a stronger reason why they should no longer be banned.

We do try to keep the Forum "more reasonable and open" as you note, but this doesn't just happen by itself. The moderators spend significant amounts of time doing their job of moderating, which is why the Forum is popular and useful and pleasant. They use various tools to assist them in this - it would be impossible to read every post - including a simple word-replacement system.

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Re: Forum changes my wording

Postby brynpoeth » 12 Jun 2018, 6:47pm

Audax67 wrote:As far as I'm concerned it's Quitters and Stayers.

I proudly call myself a re moaner
Maybe we could meet in Strasbourg (half French, a bit Germanish) :wink:
Alternative facts welcome
......
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott