feedback about moderation

Anything about use of this forum : NOT about cycling
slowster
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby slowster » 14 Jan 2021, 10:30am

Please explain why you have deleted the post I made yesterday.

Oldjohnw
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Oldjohnw » 14 Jan 2021, 10:32am

I was offline as far as this forum is concerned for over a week around Christmas. Seems I missed a whole lot of fun. Or aggro, depending on your pov.
John

Vorpal
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Vorpal » 14 Jan 2021, 2:09pm

slowster wrote:Please explain why you have deleted the post I made yesterday.

It was entirely accidental.

Apologies from the moderation team.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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slowster
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby slowster » 14 Jan 2021, 2:40pm

Vorpal wrote:
slowster wrote:Please explain why you have deleted the post I made yesterday.

It was entirely accidental.

Apologies from the moderation team.

Will you reinstate the post?

Vorpal
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Vorpal » 14 Jan 2021, 2:43pm

slowster wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
slowster wrote:Please explain why you have deleted the post I made yesterday.

It was entirely accidental.

Apologies from the moderation team.

Will you reinstate the post?

I do not have the capability to so. I do not know if it is possible, but I will make sure admin is aware of your request.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

slowster
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby slowster » 14 Jan 2021, 6:12pm

Vorpal wrote:
slowster wrote:Will you reinstate the post?

I do not have the capability to so. I do not know if it is possible, but I will make sure admin is aware of your request.

Thank you, but I have been able to recreate the post from my notes, and have posted the text below. The first part is in reponse to Carlton green's post. The rest explains why I acted as I did and finally raises the issue of the lack of action by moderators about racist dog whistle threads. It is no coincidence that Carlton green's offending statements were posts on those threads:-
I have come to the conclusion that if I were a cyclist who happened to be black or brown I could not envisage myself wanting to join the forum, since I think that it would not welcome me and I would feel very uncomfortable participating in the forum with people who made racist statements and/or repeatedly started threads which were racially charged, all of which went unchecked by the moderators, and even more so if one of them was a moderator.

I cannot recall anyone on the forum identifying themselves as black or brown and relating their experience or giving their perspective on a thread where issues of diversity, inclusivity and racism are discussed. I suspect that is because there are extremely few black or brown forum members, possibly even none, and that if there are any they do not feel comfortable identifying themselves or challenging the prejudice of other posters.

That was from my email to CUK. Carlton green, it's not about you or me. This is about how posts such as yours and the actions of the moderators in repeatedly allowing threads which were racist dog whistles must make some people feel completely unwelcome on this forum - simply because they happen to be black or brown.

I take no pleasure in what I have done. I dislike and generally avoid confrontation. I acted as I did because it was a matter of conscience. I would have wished not to put you through this in this manner, which I imagine must have been upsetting. Regrettably I did not feel that I could trust the moderators to act if I sent them a private message which would give them and you the opportunity to allow you to withdraw with more dignity. The fact that you were allowed, and possibly even encouraged, to remain and stick it out suggests that I was right in my concerns about at least some of the moderators.

I hoped that when Graham and the other moderators read my post with your quotes they would immediately realise that it was simply not possible for you to remain as a moderator, and that they would act promptly and decisively. Instead, by allowing or encouraging you to try to stay in position, they only made matters worse. To ask you to post a reply to defend yourself while they remained individually and collectively silent was wrong.

It looks as if one or more of the moderators did encourage you to stick it out and to defend yourself on the forum, but left you to do so on your own while they kept silent and stayed in the shadows. I do not know that to be the case and obviously I am making a supposition, but the lack of candour on the part of the moderators inevitably leads to such suspicions.

In the absence of a statement from the moderators that they were still considering this issue and that they would respond once they had completed their deliberations, I eventually concluded that I had no other option but to refer the matter to CUK. It appears that it was my post advising that which forced the moderators finally to act.

I delayed contacting CUK until I felt there was no alternative, because I was concerned what the outcome might be if CUK became involved, e.g. it might insist that the 'Tea Shop' was closed or the moderators might decide to close the forum.

Finally, I would highlight the issue of racist dog whistle threads. There have been a number of such threads started over the last year, all by the same person, all using a link to a news article about a racially charged subject, which provide a pretext to make racist remarks and encourage others to do likewise. If the opening posts are considered individually and in isolation, they might seem to be relatively innocent and simply inviting a discussion, but when you take a step back and consider them collectively it is quite clear that they form a pattern. This behaviour has already been pointed out to the moderators by at least one other poster, but apparently no action has been taken (see viewtopic.php?f=15&t=141220&start=15#p1532942 and viewtopic.php?f=15&t=141997&start=585#p1563357). For someone who is black or brown to see such threads repeatedly being started on the forum and the resulting racist posts must be disheartening and depressing. This needs to stop.

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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jan 2021, 8:02am

slowster wrote:Finally, I would highlight the issue of racist dog whistle threads. There have been a number of such threads started over the last year, all by the same person, all using a link to a news article about a racially charged subject, which provide a pretext to make racist remarks and encourage others to do likewise. If the opening posts are considered individually and in isolation, they might seem to be relatively innocent and simply inviting a discussion, but when you take a step back and consider them collectively it is quite clear that they form a pattern. This behaviour has already been pointed out to the moderators by at least one other poster, but apparently no action has been taken (see viewtopic.php?f=15&t=141220&start=15#p1532942 and viewtopic.php?f=15&t=141997&start=585#p1563357). For someone who is black or brown to see such threads repeatedly being started on the forum and the resulting racist posts must be disheartening and depressing. This needs to stop.

Just because you do not see it, does not mean that no action is taken.

mercalia was banned on 23 December.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

thirdcrank
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Jan 2021, 8:12am

Vorpal wrote: ... mercalia was banned on 23 December.


I'd assumed that info like that was confidential to avoid further aggro.

I'd be interested to hear who is currently banned, if there's no embargo on that.

Vorpal
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jan 2021, 8:24am

thirdcrank wrote:
Vorpal wrote: ... mercalia was banned on 23 December.


I'd assumed that info like that was confidential to avoid further aggro.

I'd be interested to hear who is currently banned, if there's no embargo on that.

In general, we do not share such information. I would not normally be willing to do so, but I will put up with further aggro, if necessary, to make a point in this case.

I'm not sure it is wise to do so. I imagine that the majority of aggro will be similar requests ;)
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Paulatic
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Re: feedback about moderation

Postby Paulatic » 15 Jan 2021, 8:47am

Vorpal wrote:[
Just because you do not see it, does not mean that no action is taken.

mercalia was banned on 23 December.


Or maybe the 24th ?

Paulatic wrote:It’s been lovely since 24 Dec 2020, 5:56pm :wink:
Moderation or holiday time will tell.
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