Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
I'm sorry Vorpal, but once again I find myself in absolute disagreement with your 'politeness over content' approach to moderation.
The thread in question was a request from someone for advice on a saddle after a prostate operation. I replied with details of a saddle I've had over 10 years experience with but, as I predicted would happen, someone with no experience of the saddle joined the thread and made categorical claims about why the saddle wouldn't work. Under those circumstances, I was absolutely justified in countering these claims, particularly as the topic was a health matter - i.e. prostate problems which this saddle was designed to prevent. Contrary to what you've claimed in your PM to me, at no point did I use any insult - the argument was technical in nature, although I took every opportunity to point out where this chap was dressing up guesswork and assumptions as fact.
I'm now well familiar with your 'politeness over content' approach, however, as with the previous debacle where you left bigoted, racist content up whilst moderating my protests against this, you've clearly got your priorities wrong in this case. Please explain how you have added to this medical discussion by deleting (1) a link to a research study report on the effects of these saddles on the perineal area when compared to a traditional saddle and (2) a public health article from a professional user of these saddles. As a result of these deletions, there is now zero expert/research evidence in the thread - it's just a disagreement between users.
The thread in question was a request from someone for advice on a saddle after a prostate operation. I replied with details of a saddle I've had over 10 years experience with but, as I predicted would happen, someone with no experience of the saddle joined the thread and made categorical claims about why the saddle wouldn't work. Under those circumstances, I was absolutely justified in countering these claims, particularly as the topic was a health matter - i.e. prostate problems which this saddle was designed to prevent. Contrary to what you've claimed in your PM to me, at no point did I use any insult - the argument was technical in nature, although I took every opportunity to point out where this chap was dressing up guesswork and assumptions as fact.
I'm now well familiar with your 'politeness over content' approach, however, as with the previous debacle where you left bigoted, racist content up whilst moderating my protests against this, you've clearly got your priorities wrong in this case. Please explain how you have added to this medical discussion by deleting (1) a link to a research study report on the effects of these saddles on the perineal area when compared to a traditional saddle and (2) a public health article from a professional user of these saddles. As a result of these deletions, there is now zero expert/research evidence in the thread - it's just a disagreement between users.
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Surely it would be best to use PM to discuss this?
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Bonefishblues wrote:Surely it would be best to use PM to discuss this?
Do mods ever reconsider in response to a PM?
I know there have been some, er, alternative views on health matters put forward on this board lately and some rebuttals deleted and described as personal attacks even though no insult was used. Probably best this is brought out into the open if it is happening to others too.
The apparent tolerance of racism is also disappointing but I think that's a different problem.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
mjr wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:Surely it would be best to use PM to discuss this?
Do mods ever reconsider in response to a PM?
I know there have been some, er, alternative views on health matters put forward on this board lately and some rebuttals deleted and described as personal attacks even though no insult was used. Probably best this is brought out into the open if it is happening to others too.
The apparent tolerance of racism is also disappointing but I think that's a different problem.
In my personal experience I have had some constructive discussions via PM with Mods, yes. My view was that it was better to do it that way. As a Forum member, and being very frank, I am starting to rather tire of these "challenge the Mod(s)" threads.
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Bonefishblues wrote:I am starting to rather tire of these "challenge the Mod(s)" threads.
Personally I don't have a problem with being challenged: mods are not anything special, we don't have Godlike powers, or insights, or arcane knowledge denied to other members of the forum, or anything much ...... ***
I'm sure I speak for all of us: we take serious notice of reports and PM's; either are fine and usually helpful. We also keep an eye on a few topics known to be contentious but we can't - and wouldn't want to - read everything. This forum is a collective endeavour; it depends on everyone helping to keep it sane and useful.
*** Vorpal is an exception: she has her sword.
No pasaran
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
ncutler wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:I am starting to rather tire of these "challenge the Mod(s)" threads.
Personally I don't have a problem with being challenged: mods are not anything special, we don't have Godlike powers, or insights, or arcane knowledge denied to other members of the forum, or anything much ...... ***
I'm sure I speak for all of us: we take serious notice of reports and PM's; either are fine and usually helpful. We also keep an eye on a few topics known to be contentious but we can't - and wouldn't want to - read everything. This forum is a collective endeavour; it depends on everyone helping to keep it sane and useful.
*** Vorpal is an exception: she has her sword.
Just for clarity, I wasn't taking issue with challenging a Mod, I was suggesting that it might be better done via PM.
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
She is very polite by pm some rare decisions but very polite.
I am here. Where are you?
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Bonefishblues wrote:ncutler wrote:Bonefishblues wrote:I am starting to rather tire of these "challenge the Mod(s)" threads.
Personally I don't have a problem with being challenged: mods are not anything special, we don't have Godlike powers, or insights, or arcane knowledge denied to other members of the forum, or anything much ...... ***
I'm sure I speak for all of us: we take serious notice of reports and PM's; either are fine and usually helpful. We also keep an eye on a few topics known to be contentious but we can't - and wouldn't want to - read everything. This forum is a collective endeavour; it depends on everyone helping to keep it sane and useful.
*** Vorpal is an exception: she has her sword.
Just for clarity, I wasn't taking issue with challenging a Mod, I was suggesting that it might be better done via PM.
Yes. And although it is of course possible to go snicker-snack with inappropriate threads I'm concerned about using a public forum to ask for an explanation from a specific individual. Fine to ask about policy but if it's addressed to an individual I'd prefer that it be done privately.
Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 6 Mar 2021, 1:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
The link below isn't about your post, it's sort of about another couple that I recently had to zap and more about the forum as a whole. However, in part, it might give you a perspective on why we are where we are...and why none of us are that happy with it.....and one bit does seem to chime with your issue....if I had read your post (the one that got zapped) a few years back I would have probably sent you a PM saying:
"Hello, read your post....you appear to be making a reasonable point and I can see why the other person might have driven you to respond in that way. However, while I have no issue with the information that you are putting forward could I please ask you to consider phrasing it in a slightly less abrasive way...after all isn't your aim to give the OP some good information on their medical issue rather than run the risk of starting a minor spat in their thread and so derailing it? Anyway I'm not going to edit your post for now but if things do start to get heated then I might have to revisit the thread. Hope you can see where I'm coming from with this? Thanks and happy cycling."
..and I think Vorpal would have done similar. But with the way things are at the moment (see the link below) I can fully understand why she did what she did.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=144376
"Hello, read your post....you appear to be making a reasonable point and I can see why the other person might have driven you to respond in that way. However, while I have no issue with the information that you are putting forward could I please ask you to consider phrasing it in a slightly less abrasive way...after all isn't your aim to give the OP some good information on their medical issue rather than run the risk of starting a minor spat in their thread and so derailing it? Anyway I'm not going to edit your post for now but if things do start to get heated then I might have to revisit the thread. Hope you can see where I'm coming from with this? Thanks and happy cycling."
..and I think Vorpal would have done similar. But with the way things are at the moment (see the link below) I can fully understand why she did what she did.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=144376
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
A thank you to the Mods from this contributor.
John
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Si wrote:The link below isn't about your post...
Right - just read your 'thesis.' Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It all made sense to me and I don't disagree with any of it, plus it was a much-needed reminder of the fact that dealing with my once-every-6-months individual gripes may seem like a small amount of work, but the overall burden on the moderators is that multiplied by hundreds or thousands.
I'm not going to pretend to have an answer to the workload problem of moderating a forum in our increasingly fractious society. However, I just want to restate the problem with what I'm calling the 'politeness over content' approach to moderation using an analogy I've used on here before. If a user starts posting extremely polite missives about the health-giving properties of drinking bleach, then they may expect some disagreement, and if they politely persist with that message, the replies will inevitably tend to become more frustrated and hostile. If the bleach-drinking advocate then complains about the flak they're received then, if politeness is being prioritised over content, the end result will be a Kafkaesque situation where those protesting against the bleach-drinking message are being censored.
I deliberately chose to raise this in the forum, rather than by PM, because this is the fourth time this has happened. The previous three instances were eventually resolved by the locking of the offending thread and thead and a member being banned. I have no problem whatsoever with the 'delete' button being pressed immediately if someone actually uses an insult or threat. However, if we're going to delete content because of some nuanced judgement about how polite or friendly the language feels then a review of what's actually being said is the only way to avoid inadvertently supporting the bleach beverage industry. (And no - I haven't forgotten your point about moderators simply no longer having the time to do this and no, I still don't have the solution, but the first step to solving a problem is to recognise it is a problem.)
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Yes, very good, as in a Vorpal sword which will cut anything. Brings back happy memories of long AD&D games.ncutler wrote: ↑4 Mar 2021, 11:30pmPersonally I don't have a problem with being challenged: mods are not anything special, we don't have Godlike powers, or insights, or arcane knowledge denied to other members of the forum, or anything much ...... ***Bonefishblues wrote:I am starting to rather tire of these "challenge the Mod(s)" threads.
I'm sure I speak for all of us: we take serious notice of reports and PM's; either are fine and usually helpful. We also keep an eye on a few topics known to be contentious but we can't - and wouldn't want to - read everything. This forum is a collective endeavour; it depends on everyone helping to keep it sane and useful.
*** Vorpal is an exception: she has her sword.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Biased moderators who would have thought it
You can say anything you want as long as it aligns with the “narrative”
If your lucky your even get PM with sympathies and still delete your posts when they haven’t a clue as to how bad a situation can become.
Seems quite a few people unimpressed with the Vorpal skills, but the Admin unless it’s a sock puppet and Vorpal pulling the strings have same views.
Don’t hold your breath a view can be expressed freely.
Back in the trenches
You can say anything you want as long as it aligns with the “narrative”
If your lucky your even get PM with sympathies and still delete your posts when they haven’t a clue as to how bad a situation can become.
Seems quite a few people unimpressed with the Vorpal skills, but the Admin unless it’s a sock puppet and Vorpal pulling the strings have same views.
Don’t hold your breath a view can be expressed freely.
Back in the trenches
Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
Vorpal does a good job -- she keeps us young boys from getting out of control. Pulled me up a couple of times but I'd rather have that than the other way round.
I am here. Where are you?
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Re: Vorpal - please explain your moderation decision.
This seems as good a place as any to ask this.
Is it now being said that comments about Brexit - something that is likely to affect our lives for a long time - may only be posted on existing Brexit threads?
Is it now being said that comments about Brexit - something that is likely to affect our lives for a long time - may only be posted on existing Brexit threads?