Sales methods - should prices be included?

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delilah
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by delilah »

I have bought and sold many items on this forum and have meet some very nice people when doing so,
Somehow I cant really get my head round the idea of " sealed bids" "blind auctions" "make me an offer" "look at in on ebay"
Does anyone think we should have a policy, like other forums, where you should have to state a price for your item? After all it could be price or " nearest offer"
Bogawski
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by Bogawski »

Yes
brumster
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by brumster »

delilah wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 7:18pm I have bought and sold many items on this forum and have meet some very nice people when doing so,
Somehow I cant really get my head round the idea of " sealed bids" "blind auctions" "make me an offer" "look at in on ebay"
Does anyone think we should have a policy, like other forums, where you should have to state a price for your item? After all it could be price or " nearest offer"
I agree too, despite the fact the selling an item with no advertised price and ' open to offers' appears on one hand a fairly reasonable way of selling, there is a possibility the sale boards could turn into an eBay style bidding site if many others followed the same course.
Bonefishblues
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by Bonefishblues »

Bogawski wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 8:23pmYes
Me also
slowster
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by slowster »

It is Chris Juden's bike and he can sell it how he chooses. No one is under an obligation to bid.
Bonefishblues
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by Bonefishblues »

slowster wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 9:14pm It is Chris Juden's bike and he can sell it how he chooses. No one is under an obligation to bid.
He can indeed. The conversation broadened rather, prompted in part by his chosen method of sale.
djnotts
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by djnotts »

brumster wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 8:40pm
delilah wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 7:18pm I have bought and sold many items on this forum and have meet some very nice people when doing so,
Somehow I cant really get my head round the idea of " sealed bids" "blind auctions" "make me an offer" "look at in on ebay"
Does anyone think we should have a policy, like other forums, where you should have to state a price for your item? After all it could be price or " nearest offer"
I agree too, despite the fact the selling an item with no advertised price and ' open to offers' appears on one hand a fairly reasonable way of selling, there is a possibility the sale boards could turn into an eBay style bidding site if many others followed the same course.
Me also. I favour the retrobike rules - for sale must state a price. One can ask for views as to value separately.
pigman
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by pigman »

delilah wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 7:18pm I have bought and sold many items on this forum and have meet some very nice people when doing so,
Somehow I cant really get my head round the idea of " sealed bids" "blind auctions" "make me an offer" "look at in on ebay"
Does anyone think we should have a policy, like other forums, where you should have to state a price for your item? After all it could be price or " nearest offer"
Agreed.

I think the open value idea restrains potential interests, as people dont want to offend. The flip side (and good for the seller) is that someone who has little idea on values, pays an over inflated price based on some canny wording or a snazzy paint job
Bonefishblues
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by Bonefishblues »

pigman wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 7:45am
delilah wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 7:18pm I have bought and sold many items on this forum and have meet some very nice people when doing so,
Somehow I cant really get my head round the idea of " sealed bids" "blind auctions" "make me an offer" "look at in on ebay"
Does anyone think we should have a policy, like other forums, where you should have to state a price for your item? After all it could be price or " nearest offer"
Agreed.

I think the open value idea restrains potential interests, as people dont want to offend. The flip side (and good for the seller) is that someone who has little idea on values, pays an over inflated price based on some canny wording or a snazzy paint job
I think that CJ made a good point earlier - what it's worth is what someone will pay. If someone pays £200 and you or I only £150, then it's worth £200. People pay what they are happy to pay, based on their idea of worth.
pigman
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by pigman »

I see that. But this is a bike, not a piece of art.
Had it been merckx's tour winning bike, then I would fully agree ,youre buying more than pieces of assembled metal, you are buying unique history.

How would you feel, assuming you had bought something naively for a certain price, only to see something comparative pop up a week later for significantly less. Or to be told by your peers that you had paid more than you probably should have.

Tbh, this probably merits a separate thread
Bonefishblues
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by Bonefishblues »

Your final sentence refers. I agree.
joe schofield
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by joe schofield »

Interesting debate.

I agree that prices ought to be stated on here to keep its essential character.

Go to eBay if you want to test 'the market'.

What we have here is a very battered 24-year-old bike. Now't special even if it is by Thorn.

CJ may once have been a big fish in the CTC world. He may even be well-meaning in inviting blind offers, but the threat to eBay it if offers aren't good enough sits a bit wrong with me.

'What it's worth is what someone will pay' is fair enough; that's how eBay works, and all you need is two people who seek the object for prices to sail out of the window.

But, note, that's what it's 'worth' to the eventual buyer. The view of others who didn't bite may be that it isn't' 'worth' that figure. They are just as right. Fairer to say, as estate agents do, that the selling price is what someone will pay. Let's leave worth out of it.

Here we run on a more relaxed regime, acceptable to all I think, where you ask a price, often below what stuff might fetch on eBay, and the first person who thinks that's a good price for them succeeds in buying it.

Most stuff on here is offered at fair prices. Daft prices are usually eventually lowered, and near-gifts are snapped up very quickly. I have been buying and selling on here for years; it's infinitely preferable to the mad scrabble and sometimes delusional pricing of eBay.

If everything on here becomes a blind auction I'm gone.

CJ, we're not getting at you; simply using your sale as a basis for discussion. Some of us value this corner of the CTC forums very highly.
thirdcrank
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by thirdcrank »

This all raises again the value of separating discussions about forum rules/ standards / etiquette from individual small ads. IMO the issues are that somebody with a useful point may never look at an individual advert and then if an advert is somehow inappropriate, then a report to the mods should get a decision without personal comments
Cyril Haearn
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Thanks for explaining that Joe, I bet a few younger members do not know who CJ is/was

One has noticed some machines offered for sale, apparently not sold, they reappear a few months later, one remembers seeing them, by which time the original post has of course disappeared so one can not see if the price has been raised or lowered. Or machines are withdrawn without explanation. There is no requirement for an explanation of course

May one ask how many miles it has done?
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CJ
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Re: 58cm THORN AUDAX - Chris Juden's 1997 review model

Post by CJ »

I did not put my bike up for sale on this forum to have the manner of its selling raked over by people who obviously have no interest in buying it. I naively assumed that here I might find people who appreciate that whilst 1990s steel-framed bikes come up for sale all the time, very few are as well designed and precisely made as the early Thorn Audax.

Coincidentally however, there's another one for sale on Ebay right now. It's even the same colour and size (but longer so wouldn't suit my short torso). There's also a more recent Thorn Brevet - not such a nice bike IMHO - at £550 and an imacculate Roberts for £1170. So I don't know why nobody's yet snapped up that Thorn Audax for only £480! I guess it must be that very few people realise that most bikes of that type merely pretend to have enough room for mudguards - so long as you don't mind kicking the front one to bits or clogging with mud whenever you ride past a wet farmyard! But then, even the person selling it hasn't fitted any. And a lot of 90s 'audax' bikes or 'light tourers' (including that Roberts) have 130mm rear ends, rather than the Thorn's 135mm for less wheel dish (hence a stronger rear wheel, which is the achilles heel of any bike that's ridden long distances) and better chain alignment (hence efficiency) in low gears.

So if you press me - as you have - I think this bike may be worth at least £500 to someone who appreciates its particular features. And I'm beginning to think that putting it on Ebay would be to cast pearls before swine. Maybe I'll keep it in the loft until someone more discerning comes along. I am certainly not interested in selling it to someone who's trawling the web for bargains they can trade at a profit. If that's your game, I don't mind if my manner of selling disappoints you.

(Edited for spelling and grammar.)
Last edited by CJ on 13 Apr 2021, 5:17pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris Juden
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