Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

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ClappedOut
Posts: 585
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by ClappedOut »

Hi it would seem my posts are removed for quoting the government's own website verbatim.

These are not my unsubstantiated claims they are exactly as quoted on the government's website without any alterations.

Please tell your moderator that censorship of posting on a government website without twisting the facts isn't impartial moderation.

If you don't want to discuss Covid, simply ban it as a topic.
markjohnobrien
Posts: 1037
Joined: 4 Oct 2007, 8:15pm

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by markjohnobrien »

ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:53pm Hi it would seem my posts are removed for quoting the government's own website verbatim.

These are not my unsubstantiated claims they are exactly as quoted on the government's website without any alterations.

Please tell your moderator that censorship of posting on a government website without twisting the facts isn't impartial moderation.

If you don't want to discuss Covid, simply ban it as a topic.

I didn’t agree with your stuff posted yesterday - factually incorrect on flu deaths and reliant on YouTube and Facebook as sources and it was veering into conspiracy theories in places - but it certainly shouldn’t have been banned.

I wonder who asked for this to be deleted?
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
markjohnobrien
Posts: 1037
Joined: 4 Oct 2007, 8:15pm

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by markjohnobrien »

Jdsk wrote: 3 May 2021, 3:59pm There is a public health emergency.

You posted things that aren't true.

You didn't answer straight questions on what you had posted from me and others.

...

Thank you, Moderators.

Jonathan
I must admit it veers slightly too much over the censorship line for me - although fully agreeing with your comments on the accuracy (or lack of) and also the posters lack of awareness of the damage he could be doing with the untrue comments.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
ClappedOut
Posts: 585
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by ClappedOut »

Simply NHS weekly death rates are allegedly unsubstantiated.
Simply Govement's own death by heat map is unsubstantiated.

Government yellow book adverse reactions and deaths from Covid with direct link.

All have been posted directly with links to the data and un manipulated.

Anyway in la la land your all get vaccine with zero adverse effects and it will be whatever the mainstream media say, regardless of what Chris Whitty actually said and could be seen to say in a video.
Government own data won't matter as it doesn't fit the narrative you follow and unquestionably your opinions will be the rhetoric you regurgitate.

For some of us this hasn't been a furlough holiday and the loss of a friend from suicide and a family member- the situation is serious.

Where we disagree is how and why.
Anyway you haven't won as I simply have got bored of you.

Looking forward to seeing people twitch when taxed to pay for it all- you didn't think it was free :lol:
ClappedOut
Posts: 585
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by ClappedOut »

Vorpal, closed a complaint about them so it goes to show there is biased moderator why can't take a step back and ask for an unbiased second opinion.
Vorpal
Moderator
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Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by Vorpal »

ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 4:15pm Vorpal, closed a complaint about them so it goes to show there is biased moderator why can't take a step back and ask for an unbiased second opinion.
I sent you an explanatory message. You are welcome to appeal to one of the others.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
mikeymo
Posts: 2299
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by mikeymo »

It's interesting that discussion about forum moderation is now happening in private, don't you think?

Doesn't say much for the "openness" of the moderation, eh?
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4629
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by slowster »

ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 4:12pm Simply NHS weekly death rates are allegedly unsubstantiated.
Simply Govement's own death by heat map is unsubstantiated.

Government yellow book adverse reactions and deaths from Covid with direct link.

All have been posted directly with links to the data and un manipulated.

Anyway in la la land your all get vaccine with zero adverse effects and it will be whatever the mainstream media say, regardless of what Chris Whitty actually said and could be seen to say in a video.
Government own data won't matter as it doesn't fit the narrative you follow and unquestionably your opinions will be the rhetoric you regurgitate.

For some of us this hasn't been a furlough holiday and the loss of a friend from suicide and a family member- the situation is serious.

Where we disagree is how and why.
Anyway you haven't won as I simply have got bored of you.

Looking forward to seeing people twitch when taxed to pay for it all- you didn't think it was free :lol:
If you make serious allegations about the medical science, then you need to back them up with serious evidence. You posted a Youtube video which contained a 1 minute extract from a 1 hour 19 minute presentation Chris Whitty gave over a year ago. In that clip he stated that only a very small percentage of people who contract Covid-19 will die as a result, and even the majority of those in the highest risk groups will survive. But those very small percentages applied to the whole UK population translate to tens of thousands of deaths over and above the numbers of deaths that would normally occur over the course of a year.

You rely on Chris Whitty's scientific authority for the mortality of Covid-19, but reject it when it comes to vaccination or lockdown measures, and fail to present good scientific evidence for your somewhat incoherent allegations.

I couldn't be bothered to look closely at the government document about persuading people, but I suspect it was similarly written early on in the pandemic and was addressing the question of how to achieve high levels of compliance and cooperation with measures such as social distancing and hand washing.

It seemed to me therefore that you were cherry picking and misrepresenting the scientific evidence, something which is anti-science and consistent with anti-vax propaganda. That is what I wrote when I reported your post, and I suggested that the moderators have someone knowledgeable about the science etc. review your post to see if that was indeed the case.
ClappedOut
Posts: 585
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by ClappedOut »

mikeymo wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:02pm It's interesting that discussion about forum moderation is now happening in private, don't you think?

Doesn't say much for the "openness" of the moderation, eh?
Exactly I'm scare mongering when I said that we do not know latent effects of a novel vaccine, so there is no data yet it could be completely safe or have unknown issues.
Safe is a relatively interesting concept as for the vast majority it seems safe- it wasn't for those who died as reported by yellow card Gov website.

I had posts I mentioned AIDS and locally from my partner talking with various primary & Secondary school parent they report oral contraceptives as main choice and this may not be representative nationally.
In 40 odd years I only know one AIDS victim who was high risk.

My concern is the PM telling me that it's a cycling forum and if I don't follow the popular narrative it will be deleted.

At this point in time I have zero trust in the state who destroyed 14 years of profitable business and savings.
There is no plan B and unless trading to a degree improves likely to never work again the other side as multiple health issues.

The Pandemic for us has been too high a cost for something our personal experiences.

At this point I care not for social distancing, a vaccine with a high personal risk of extreme adverse effects or any of it.

We are carrying on as normal for months and I wonder if the Nazis came to power with unquestioning obedience and behavioural science.

Can't be bothered with rhetoric, small minded power trips and parrots.

Hope you get everything you want and deserve including a big tax bill to pay for it all-losses we made we won't be paying a penny for years :lol:

Fully believe we had Covid in the household and at this point statistically unlikely to die of it- but If we did at least we did it our way :lol:

Past caring, do what you like
markjohnobrien
Posts: 1037
Joined: 4 Oct 2007, 8:15pm

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by markjohnobrien »

People would take you more seriously if:

The “facts” weren’t demonstrably false: I.e, flu death numbers.

You weren’t repeating anti-vax tropes from dubious sources.
Raleigh Randonneur 708 (Magura hydraulic brakes); Blue Raleigh Randonneur 708 dynamo; Pearson Compass 631 tourer; Dawes One Down 631 dynamo winter bike;Raleigh Travelogue 708 tourer dynamo; Kona Sutra; Trek 920 disc Sram Force.
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20700
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by Vorpal »

ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm
mikeymo wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:02pm It's interesting that discussion about forum moderation is now happening in private, don't you think?

Doesn't say much for the "openness" of the moderation, eh?
The discussion is in private because the posts have been removed. Not because I am hiding anything. It is disingenuous to suggest that there was nothing but an evidence based discussion of safety in the removed posts, and therefore I am censoring someone.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm Exactly I'm scare mongering when I said that we do not know latent effects of a novel vaccine, so there is no data yet it could be completely safe or have unknown issues.
Safe is a relatively interesting concept as for the vast majority it seems safe- it wasn't for those who died as reported by yellow card Gov website.
No. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing the safety of the vaccine. I have done so myself. Scaremongering is "Remember Thalidomide", implying that there is some kind of correlation, and as if that drug were not the reason for significant and far-reaching changes to drug approval processes all over the world.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm I had posts I mentioned AIDS and locally from my partner talking with various primary & Secondary school parent they report oral contraceptives as main choice and this may not be representative nationally.
In 40 odd years I only know one AIDS victim who was high risk.
You posted a number of incorrect things about AIDS that frankly sounded rather prejudiced, and concluded
ClappedOut wrote:So AIDS is terrible in acute group and at its peak in 1980’s 8000 deaths
About 1 million people every year die of AIDS. 38 million people around the world live with AIDS. It is an ongoing epidemic. https://www.kff.org/global-health-polic ... 20age%2015.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm My concern is the PM telling me that it's a cycling forum and if I don't follow the popular narrative it will be deleted.
That is not what I said. What I said was
This is a cycling forum. The main reason for its existence is cycling. We don't have a problem with people discussing covid or government measures, but not posting blatantly false information or unsubstantiated scare mongering.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm At this point in time I have zero trust in the state who destroyed 14 years of profitable business and savings.
There is no plan B and unless trading to a degree improves likely to never work again the other side as multiple health issues.

The Pandemic for us has been too high a cost for something our personal experiences.

At this point I care not for social distancing, a vaccine with a high personal risk of extreme adverse effects or any of it.
I have some sympathy for your situation. Your anger and lack of trust are entirely justified.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm We are carrying on as normal for months and I wonder if the Nazis came to power with unquestioning obedience and behavioural science.

Can't be bothered with rhetoric, small minded power trips and parrots.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you are suggesting that my moderation is small minded power trips, I think that reflects more on you than me.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
ClappedOut
Posts: 585
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by ClappedOut »

Vorpal wrote: 3 May 2021, 6:41pm
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm
mikeymo wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:02pm It's interesting that discussion about forum moderation is now happening in private, don't you think?

Doesn't say much for the "openness" of the moderation, eh?
The discussion is in private because the posts have been removed. Not because I am hiding anything. It is disingenuous to suggest that there was nothing but an evidence based discussion of safety in the removed posts, and therefore I am censoring someone.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm Exactly I'm scare mongering when I said that we do not know latent effects of a novel vaccine, so there is no data yet it could be completely safe or have unknown issues.
Safe is a relatively interesting concept as for the vast majority it seems safe- it wasn't for those who died as reported by yellow card Gov website.
No. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing the safety of the vaccine. I have done so myself. Scaremongering is "Remember Thalidomide", implying that there is some kind of correlation, and as if that drug were not the reason for significant and far-reaching changes to drug approval processes all over the world.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm I had posts I mentioned AIDS and locally from my partner talking with various primary & Secondary school parent they report oral contraceptives as main choice and this may not be representative nationally.
In 40 odd years I only know one AIDS victim who was high risk.
You posted a number of incorrect things about AIDS that frankly sounded rather prejudiced, and concluded
ClappedOut wrote:So AIDS is terrible in acute group and at its peak in 1980’s 8000 deaths
About 1 million people every year die of AIDS. 38 million people around the world live with AIDS. It is an ongoing epidemic. https://www.kff.org/global-health-polic ... 20age%2015.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm My concern is the PM telling me that it's a cycling forum and if I don't follow the popular narrative it will be deleted.
That is not what I said. What I said was
This is a cycling forum. The main reason for its existence is cycling. We don't have a problem with people discussing covid or government measures, but not posting blatantly false information or unsubstantiated scare mongering.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm At this point in time I have zero trust in the state who destroyed 14 years of profitable business and savings.
There is no plan B and unless trading to a degree improves likely to never work again the other side as multiple health issues.

The Pandemic for us has been too high a cost for something our personal experiences.

At this point I care not for social distancing, a vaccine with a high personal risk of extreme adverse effects or any of it.
I have some sympathy for your situation. Your anger and lack of trust are entirely justified.
ClappedOut wrote: 3 May 2021, 5:46pm We are carrying on as normal for months and I wonder if the Nazis came to power with unquestioning obedience and behavioural science.

Can't be bothered with rhetoric, small minded power trips and parrots.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you are suggesting that my moderation is small minded power trips, I think that reflects more on you than me.
Last post as I thought I had unsubscribed and really couldn’t care less, don’t flatter yourself as a general comment.

Your looking for an argument and I cannot be bothered playing a losing game which is the bait and ban one.

Public are like sheep, the opinions are the rhetoric they are spoon fed by government / media, there is no prize as I have lost before this argument began on things far more important than scoring brownie points on a forum among many others that are arguably better or worse than this one.

My week is another hard Manual slog which will be making a loss either way- simply don’t care and stop PM img me as saying the government didn’t support a section of society enough is stating the bleeding obvious with no value to it.

Guy Fawkes had something!

Vorpal
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Re: Posting Govement data is unsubstantiated?

Post by Vorpal »

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“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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