Cookie opt out

Anything about use of this forum : NOT about cycling
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chris_suffolk
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by chris_suffolk »

Mick F wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 7:02pm If a telly doesn't store cookies, how can you remain logged into a website?
So I said they may not store cookies. On further reading it seems that they do, and you can clear the cache as on a PC etc. What's not clear, and I can't find, is why they don't all prompt when browsing.

Anyway, this is a deviation from the issue here, in that THIS SITE isn't compliant.
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Mick F
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by Mick F »

Here I am on the telly. No warnings. I'll try another website. and report back.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Mick F
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by Mick F »

Toyota Owners Club.
Try it.

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums ... aris-club/

No warnings on the telly, but there is with the computer.
Mick F. Cornwall
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chris_suffolk
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by chris_suffolk »

Interesting, as I don't get any warnings when browsing on a PC, although it has stored cookies on my PC, which is against the rules as I haven't consented to them.
Syd
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Cookie opt out

Post by Syd »

I’m going to buy some shares in tinfoil companies given all the hats you lot must be creating for yourselves.

FWIW websites seem to think, from my IP address, that I am in Manchester and sometimes London, which I am not.
drossall
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by drossall »

I've had a quick look and I could see only five cookies - three phpBB ones, without which I'm betting log-ons and so on won't work, so no good declining those, even if we could. And two Google Analytics. The problem with building Web sites using a platform, such as phpBB, is that you're constrained by whether it will let you turn those off. Or else you use a third-party tool such as Civic Cookie Control, that works by deleting all the cookies the user doesn't want, the moment they are created. And even that doesn't work for everything.

Of course, not using a platform is impracticable in most cases! Complying can be really, really difficult.
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chris_suffolk
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by chris_suffolk »

drossall wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 8:17pm I've had a quick look and I could see only five cookies - three phpBB ones, without which I'm betting log-ons and so on won't work, so no good declining those, even if we could. And two Google Analytics. The problem with building Web sites using a platform, such as phpBB, is that you're constrained by whether it will let you turn those off. Or else you use a third-party tool such as Civic Cookie Control, that works by deleting all the cookies the user doesn't want, the moment they are created. And even that doesn't work for everything.

Of course, not using a platform is impracticable in most cases! Complying can be really, really difficult.
Difficult or not, a Reject button HAS to be provided, and the option to DECLINE given to users. Can somebody give me a timescale for the necessary work to be completed please.
drossall
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by drossall »

The full ICO information is here. Under exemptions, it explains that necessary cookies do not need consent. I'm betting that the phpBB cookies are necessary, and that without them we won't be able to take part in this debate :D

And as for difficult, the ICO was non-compliant with its own guidance for quite some time. I'm betting they had to do a major rebuild on their Web systems first. One of the obstacles is platforms that do not give the host organisation options to distinguish between necessary and optional cookies or, more seriously, use the same cookies for purposes that do and do not require consent - so any options that stop those cookies also break the system.

Not saying that applies here, just trying to show the other side of things.
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chris_suffolk
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by chris_suffolk »

drossall wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 8:42pm The full ICO information is here. Under exemptions, it explains that necessary cookies do not need consent. I'm betting that the phpBB cookies are necessary, and that without them we won't be able to take part in this debate :D

And as for difficult, the ICO was non-compliant with its own guidance for quite some time. I'm betting they had to do a major rebuild on their Web systems first. One of the obstacles is platforms that do not give the host organisation options to distinguish between necessary and optional cookies or, more seriously, use the same cookies for purposes that do and do not require consent - so any options that stop those cookies also break the system.

Not saying that applies here, just trying to show the other side of things.
From your own research, you said that 2 of the cookies are google analytics, and thus NOT necessary. Thus, they have to be allowed to be rejected, which they are currently not. So, I'll ask again - when will this be done?

These 'rules' have been in force for a couple of years at least, and known about for a couple more before that.
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admin
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by admin »

Phew, that opened a hornets' nest!

OK, the current state of play is:
  1. The Forum uses cookies for sessions (necessary for the Forum to work) and Google Analytics (visitor statistics). We do not give or sell your data to any third parties.
  2. Legally, we are required to have a GDPR cookie opt-in system for the Google Analytics cookies. Like many sites we've avoided doing so, because it's technically difficult and annoying for visitors. Those who wish to block Google tracking can do so with browser plugins or settings.
  3. The cookie warning provided by phpBB is not GDPR compliant, and is merely a nuisance. It was tried, briefly, this afternoon, and then switched off again.
  4. There are no cookie warnings on this forum, currently, but we will be adding a pop-up soon to ensure that Cycling UK is complying with the law.
The GDPR cookie opt-in law is not good law, it creates annoyance on compliant sites and fails to protect privacy on sites that might be sharing your data without you knowing. But it is the law.

To minimise annoyance, I can recommend setting tight cookie preferences in your browser (which will work on all sites you visit) and installing something like "I don't care about cookies" plugin to block the annoying popups on many sites you might visit.

Note: not all devices or browsers will show cookie warning pop-ups. Some will fail to execute some required JavaScript, or might already be blocking the pop-ups due to other privacy-related settings.
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mjr
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by mjr »

Syd wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 7:32pm I’m going to buy some shares in tinfoil companies given all the hats you lot must be creating for yourselves. Image

FWIW websites seem to think, from my IP address, that I am in Manchester and sometimes London, which I am not.
That's just what they want you to think they think!

Don't come crying to us when you're a fully-owned pseud of fakebook.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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admin
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by admin »

chris_suffolk wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 9:18pmSo, I'll ask again - when will this be done?
We're looking into it as we "speak".

In the meantime, I can recommend uBlock Origin and/or browser settings (Vivaldi is good on this) to block tracking cookies reliably and consistently across all websites. And something else to block all the annoying GDPR popups that are now useless.
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admin
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by admin »

Syd wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 7:32pmFWIW websites seem to think, from my IP address, that I am in Manchester and sometimes London, which I am not.
IP address to location data is unreliable, very expensive, or both. Sometimes even the country is completely wrong, if a block of addresses gets sold to a different network provider.

There are many different sources for this sort of information, each with a different idea of where you are. Which is probably a Good Thing.
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admin
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by admin »

Mick F wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 6:46pm I have Adblock etc, but whenI click on the link, I get this .................

Screen Shot 2021-06-07 at 18.45.51.png
Your AdBlock Plus is mangling the URL for some reason (hence the "abp" in the error message).

Copy and paste this into your browser address bar:

https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/
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mjr
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Re: Cookie opt out

Post by mjr »

admin wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 10:46pm The Forum uses cookies for sessions (necessary for the Forum to work)
Unless something changed, PHPBB doesn't have to use cookies for sessions. It can use a PHPSESSID in the URL instead: plus side is you don't have to accept any cookies, but the drawback is you cannot share links to the forum as easily.
admin wrote: 7 Jun 2021, 10:46pm [...] Legally, we are required to have a GDPR cookie opt-in system for the Google Analytics cookies. Like many sites we've avoided doing so, because it's technically difficult and annoying for visitors. [...] we will be adding a pop-up soon to ensure that Cycling UK is complying with the law.
It does not have to be a pop-up or annoying to comply with the law.
The GDPR cookie opt-in law is not good law, it creates annoyance on compliant sites and fails to protect privacy on sites that might be sharing your data without you knowing. But it is the law.
The GDPR cookie opt-in law is not good law because it has not achieved the desired effect of reducing data-sharing and naughty programmers have subverted it by complying in annoying ways with pop-ups, hard-to-find "decline" buttons and dancing bears.
Note: not all devices or browsers will show cookie warning pop-ups. Some will fail to execute some required JavaScript, or might already be blocking the pop-ups due to other privacy-related settings.
Having a consent request which doesn't display on non-JavaScript browsers is not complying with the law, is it? Of course, there are thousands of websites ahead of you in the firing line for that mistake. The ICO should never be short of work as long as this law exists!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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