** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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pwa
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pwa » 7 Dec 2017, 11:01am

Psamathe wrote:To me the issue is something created by (predominantly) English politicians. Carrying out the referendum result does not cause any problems over the Irish border. It is all the red lines May and her rabid supporters of brexit have created that is causing the problems.

Ian


I'd say some red lines need to fade on both sides.

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 7 Dec 2017, 11:10am

pwa wrote:
Psamathe wrote:To me the issue is something created by (predominantly) English politicians. Carrying out the referendum result does not cause any problems over the Irish border. It is all the red lines May and her rabid supporters of brexit have created that is causing the problems.

Ian


I'd say some red lines need to fade on both sides.

But the supporters of brexit have realised this and are already fighting back hard against it
Rees-Mogg from PMQ yesterday wrote:Before [Ms May] next goes to Brussels, will she apply a new coat of paint to her red lines? Because I fear on Monday they were beginning to look a little bit pink.


Bernard Jenkin from PMQ yesterday wrote:Would [she] confirm that she is aware of the very strong enthusiasm for free trade deals with the UK from countries like Canada, Japan, the United States, Australia and even for participations in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

But none of these opportunities will come our way if we remain shackled to EU regulation after we’ve left the EU.

etc.

Ian

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 7 Dec 2017, 11:16am

pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:.....
Well David Davis says Brexit may well have as big an impact as the 2008 credit crunch and could be the worst financial downturn since the thirties...

How does he think that when we've today learnt (from his own mouth) that they have not done any impact assessments!

Ian


The remain campaign told him before the referendum. Anyhow I don't think he needs any detailed impact assessments to tell him it's a likely outcome.

The good news is that our MEPs have been commissioning impact studies and DD can't stop them: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkin ... udies.html

The bad news is that the impact seems to be a loss of nearly £800 per UK taxpayer. I think maybe I can see why DD doesn't want any impact assessments...
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mr bajokoses
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 7 Dec 2017, 11:26am

In the end this boils down to:

1. Peace in Ireland
2. The United Kingdom
3. Brexit

Choose any two from the above.

What none of the brexiters seem able to do is state which of 1 and 2 is a lower priority than Brexit.

What a dilemma for Mrs May!

djnotts
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby djnotts » 7 Dec 2017, 11:39am

Brexiters thrive on war - that's why they want to turn the clock back 70 years. They relish armed conflict - it's always good for capitalism. Arms sales, foreigners to blame for domestic failings, keeps the plebs in their place.....the fact that the EU was a significant factor in keeping one of the longest periods of W European peace was in itself sufficient to loathe it.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 7 Dec 2017, 11:43am

Psamathe wrote:To me the issue is something created by (predominantly) English politicians. Carrying out the referendum result does not cause any problems over the Irish border. It is all the red lines May and her rabid supporters of brexit have created that is causing the problems

It's worth noting that Fox, Gove and IDS were born in Scotland, while Johnson was born in the US. Bloody immigrants!

pwa
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pwa » 7 Dec 2017, 12:06pm

djnotts wrote:Brexiters thrive on war - that's why they want to turn the clock back 70 years. They relish armed conflict - it's always good for capitalism. Arms sales, foreigners to blame for domestic failings, keeps the plebs in their place.....the fact that the EU was a significant factor in keeping one of the longest periods of W European peace was in itself sufficient to loathe it.


How does Blair fit into this analysis? Or Cameron?

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 7 Dec 2017, 12:29pm

Psamathe wrote:
pwa wrote:
Psamathe wrote:To me the issue is something created by (predominantly) English politicians. Carrying out the referendum result does not cause any problems over the Irish border. It is all the red lines May and her rabid supporters of brexit have created that is causing the problems.

Ian


I'd say some red lines need to fade on both sides.

But the supporters of brexit have realised this and are already fighting back hard against it
Rees-Mogg from PMQ yesterday wrote:Before [Ms May] next goes to Brussels, will she apply a new coat of paint to her red lines? Because I fear on Monday they were beginning to look a little bit pink.


Bernard Jenkin from PMQ yesterday wrote:Would [she] confirm that she is aware of the very strong enthusiasm for free trade deals with the UK from countries like Canada, Japan, the United States, Australia and even for participations in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

But none of these opportunities will come our way if we remain shackled to EU regulation after we’ve left the EU.

etc.

Ian


Pie in the sky. For example May worked hard to get the Japanese to agree to allow Britain the same trading terms as it does the EU after Brexit.
Enthusiasm for a free trade deal in the USA with an America first president who wants to get rid of current US free trade deals? The tariff on Bombardier planes made in Northern Ireland is far more indicative of the US attitude towards trade with the UK than anything the likes of Bernard Jenkin might say.

Stevek76
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Stevek76 » 7 Dec 2017, 12:35pm

Psamathe wrote:
Bernard Jenkin from PMQ yesterday wrote:Would [she] confirm that she is aware of the very strong enthusiasm for free trade deals with the UK from countries like Canada, Japan, the United States, Australia and even for participations in the Trans-Pacific Partnership.


Hahaha, that's incredible, especially the tpp part, that ocean right outside our door. :lol:

Presumably that was the contents of Jenkin's dream the other night.

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 7 Dec 2017, 12:43pm

pete75 wrote:....
Enthusiasm for a free trade deal in the USA with an America first president who wants to get rid of current US free trade deals? The tariff on Bombardier planes made in Northern Ireland is far more indicative of the US attitude towards trade with the UK than anything the likes of Bernard Jenkin might say.

Interesting indication as to the way Trump thinks of trade deal in that with his North American Free Trade Area (NAFTA) changes he is seeing is included a 5 year sunset clause! Ludicrous to expect business to go to all the effort of finding export customers and gearing-up to make use of a trade deal when that deal has a potential 5 year expiry!

And if Trump is seeking that for NAFTA why would he not also be seeing the same for any US/UK trade deal.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta-sunset/u-s-wants-nafta-five-year-sunset-provision-commerces-ross-idUSKCN1BP2M5 wrote:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said on Thursday that the United States was seeking to add a five-year sunset provision to the North American Free Trade Agreement to provide a regular, “systematic re-examination” of the trade pact.


Ian

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 7 Dec 2017, 12:45pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:.....
Well David Davis says Brexit may well have as big an impact as the 2008 credit crunch and could be the worst financial downturn since the thirties...

How does he think that when we've today learnt (from his own mouth) that they have not done any impact assessments!

Ian

Is the answer "Because we're making this up as we go along"?

If he admits it could be as bad as the 2008 crash, how very much worse must he have been told it will be?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 7 Dec 2017, 12:53pm

Vorpal wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Psamathe wrote:How does he think that when we've today learnt (from his own mouth) that they have not done any impact assessments!

Ian

Is the answer "Because we're making this up as we go along"?

If he admits it could be as bad as the 2008 crash, how very much worse must he have been told it will be?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rem+e ... e&ie=UTF-8

Vorpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 7 Dec 2017, 3:14pm

Psamathe wrote:Interesting indication as to the way Trump thinks of trade deal in that with his North American Free Trade Area (NAFTA) changes he is seeing is included a 5 year sunset clause! Ludicrous to expect business to go to all the effort of finding export customers and gearing-up to make use of a trade deal when that deal has a potential 5 year expiry!

And if Trump is seeking that for NAFTA why would he not also be seeing the same for any US/UK trade deal.

Trump couldn't make NAFTA go away by regular means, so he is doing it by stealth.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 7 Dec 2017, 4:10pm

Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:....
Enthusiasm for a free trade deal in the USA with an America first president who wants to get rid of current US free trade deals? The tariff on Bombardier planes made in Northern Ireland is far more indicative of the US attitude towards trade with the UK than anything the likes of Bernard Jenkin might say.

Interesting indication as to the way Trump thinks of trade deal in that with his North American Free Trade Area (NAFTA) changes he is seeing is included a 5 year sunset clause! Ludicrous to expect business to go to all the effort of finding export customers and gearing-up to make use of a trade deal when that deal has a potential 5 year expiry!

And if Trump is seeking that for NAFTA why would he not also be seeing the same for any US/UK trade deal.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta-sunset/u-s-wants-nafta-five-year-sunset-provision-commerces-ross-idUSKCN1BP2M5 wrote:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said on Thursday that the United States was seeking to add a five-year sunset provision to the North American Free Trade Agreement to provide a regular, “systematic re-examination” of the trade pact.


Ian


WIth that attitude why would he want to make any trade deal with the UK? We'd probably be better off without one anyway. The US would doubtless offer something heavily one sided and our dunderheads would accept if only to boast about having a deal and damn the consequences.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 7 Dec 2017, 4:18pm



A couplet from this sums up the Brexiter attitude
"Don't know what I want
But I know how to get it"