Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

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pwa
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby pwa » 16 May 2018, 2:34pm

Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 May 2018, 2:51pm

pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

Depends on why you want cycling heaven.

You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Mick F
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby Mick F » 16 May 2018, 3:15pm

pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.
Spot on.
Definitely.
Indeed.
+1
I agree.
:D

[XAP]Bob wrote:You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...
Spot on.
Definitely.
Indeed.
+1
I agree.
:D

The point is, we want good cycling provision, done properly, where we want it. We want it were we want it.
Holland is an awful cycling place IMHO. Been there, done it.
Give me hills, even to commute with.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Graham
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby Graham » 16 May 2018, 3:25pm

Netherlands is good when cycling for functional transport AND one can cycle over to the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, etc, for a bit of leisure, WITHOUT the major cross-channel expense and hassle of the UK.

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Mick F
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby Mick F » 16 May 2018, 3:30pm

Graham wrote:Netherlands is good when cycling for functional transport AND one can cycle over to the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, etc, for a bit of leisure, WITHOUT the major cross-channel expense and hassle of the UK.
Ok, but how far away are the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France and Switzerland?

When I commuted, it was an enjoyable 17 hilly miles each way.
I go out for leisure these days, and like a nice circuit of anything from 20miles to 50+miles. All nice and hilly.
Mick F. Cornwall

pwa
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby pwa » 16 May 2018, 3:41pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

Depends on why you want cycling heaven.

You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...


I suppose I don't actually want to live in a place without decent hills, cycling or not. It may have some of the attributes of a cycling heaven, but it lacks one. Heaven aint flat.

reohn2
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby reohn2 » 16 May 2018, 4:50pm

pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

But would you like to live in the Alps with a bike as your form of transport?
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reohn2
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby reohn2 » 16 May 2018, 4:52pm

Graham wrote:Netherlands is good when cycling for functional transport AND one can cycle over to the hilly bits of Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, etc, for a bit of leisure, WITHOUT the major cross-channel expense and hassle of the UK.

Spot on!
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mercalia
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby mercalia » 16 May 2018, 5:11pm

stu1102 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht


looks like The Village to me


Tangled Metal
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby Tangled Metal » 16 May 2018, 6:18pm

Personally a few hills plus cycling for transport is heaven. Why can't the UK have cycling at the centre of transport design / planning? Hills and the attitude of Houten would be closer to heaven. Maybe not huge, steep hills but a bit of variety in the altitude is necessary for the cycling soul IMHO.

BTW I've cycled in a part of Holland, the dunes, and they do have hills of sorts. Infrastructure isn't perfect neither IMHO. Perhaps Houten is different.

pwa
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby pwa » 16 May 2018, 6:31pm

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

But would you like to live in the Alps with a bike as your form of transport?

No, but that is thinking about bikes as if they are just utility things, like a washing machine or a vacuum cleaner. Practical but not inspiring. A great experience cycling, for me, involves hills and interesting countryside, not flat towns. Flat towns are what I try to escape. If walking heaven is about traffic free routes in towns, I'll have to rethink my love of hill walking.

Practical cycling is something I do, but I enjoy the fact that my commutes involve quiet hilly lanes. I'd not trade that for flat traffic-free routes.

brynpoeth
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby brynpoeth » 16 May 2018, 8:12pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

Depends on why you want cycling heaven.

You appear to want it as a leisure activity... Other people want it as a practical transport choice...

Both. All
There are some hilly bits in the Nether-Lands
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

reohn2
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby reohn2 » 16 May 2018, 8:16pm

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:Doesn't add up. Cycle Heaven for me is the Alps. Cycle Hell would be a flat place. The Netherlands has good cycling facilities / culture in the wrong landscape.

But would you like to live in the Alps with a bike as your form of transport?

No, but that is thinking about bikes as if they are just utility things, like a washing machine or a vacuum cleaner. Practical but not inspiring.

Practical doesn't mean uninspiring.I'd argue that the utility of the bicycle and the much,much better environment which has been developed around it's use is extremely inspiring TBH.

A great experience cycling, for me, involves hills and interesting countryside, not flat towns. Flat towns are what I try to escape. If walking heaven is about traffic free routes in towns, I'll have to rethink my love of hill walking

Man people live in flat towns in the UK where the NL model could be adopted and the inhabitants lives enriched because of it,those people may have to travel to hilly areas for their leisure cycling and walking.TBH I think it's a bit peevish to complain about NL's topography in relation to cycling when it really is cycling heaven compared to most countries and particularly the UK's crap attitude to he bike as a utility vehicle.

Practical cycling is something I do, but I enjoy the fact that my commutes involve quiet hilly lanes. I'd not trade that for flat traffic-free routes.

No one's asking you to,but to right off NL cycling's status due to a lack of your preferred topography is to miss the point of the OP IMO.

EDIT:- just to add,NL is cycle heaven not because it's flat but because the bike is king!
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 May 2018, 8:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: Welcome to cycle heaven: why we moved our family to the Netherlands

Postby reohn2 » 16 May 2018, 8:21pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Personally a few hills plus cycling for transport is heaven. Why can't the UK have cycling at the centre of transport design / planning? ......

Because it's a backward country with outraged attitudes and a very unhealthy class system that seems to think your a nobody if you ride a bike,ride a recumbent and your really of you rocker :?
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 May 2018, 8:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I cycle therefore I am.