** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 6 Dec 2018, 8:04pm

mercalia wrote:well they are still milking the Common Agricultural Policy for all its worth, so that dont surprize me.


Pun intended?

I suppose you think Welsh farmers never do that?

Or the Duke of Malborough and Rees Mogg?

brynpoeth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Dec 2018, 8:35pm

France and Germany are or were the heart of the EU, but Merkel is going soon and MacRon may be in trouble

Mitterrand and Kohl got on well and were motivated by memories of ww2
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 6 Dec 2018, 11:34pm

Some more on the consequences of 'no deal':
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ns-council
Of course the Brex**iteers will call this "scaremongering", or "project fear", or whatever trope takes their fancy in these turbulent times. I call it an authoritative report, responsibly sourced.

I also take note of the phrases "unburied bodies" and "uncollected waste". Now, where have I heard those expressions before?

That's right (I've been around long enough to remember)! The celebrated "Winter of Discontent" of 1978-79, during which Callaghan famously (and apocryphally) was alleged to have uttered the words "crisis? What crisis?". He didn't. But, that was indeed what happened: rubbish piled up in the streets, and bodies left unburied.

And what happened next? It's history now. Motion of No Confidence, and the Gov. tumbles. Pity that let in Thatcher. Certainly a lesson to be learnt from those days.
Pete

Et qui rit des curés d'Oc?/De Meuse raines, houp! de cloques./De quelles loques ce turque coin./Et ne d'anes ni rennes,/Ecuries des curés d'Oc. - Louis d'Antin


mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 7 Dec 2018, 5:09pm

661-Pete wrote:Some more on the consequences of 'no deal':
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ns-council
Of course the Brex**iteers will call this "scaremongering", or "project fear", or whatever trope takes their fancy in these turbulent times. I call it an authoritative report, responsibly sourced.

I also take note of the phrases "unburied bodies" and "uncollected waste". Now, where have I heard those expressions before?

That's right (I've been around long enough to remember)! The celebrated "Winter of Discontent" of 1978-79, during which Callaghan famously (and apocryphally) was alleged to have uttered the words "crisis? What crisis?". He didn't. But, that was indeed what happened: rubbish piled up in the streets, and bodies left unburied.

And what happened next? It's history now. Motion of No Confidence, and the Gov. tumbles. Pity that let in Thatcher. Certainly a lesson to be learnt from those days.


Post Brexit
well I dont have a cart I can always use my cycle trailer? make a few quid? whats 9d with inflation? must be some thing?


hmm £27 it seems
value.JPG


worthwhile getting a bigger trailer? Monty Pyhton had the right idea, pile them high

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 8 Dec 2018, 8:28am

It's getting serious when the government is thinking of letting pharmacists change prescriptions due to drug shortages. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 72021.html I take heart medication after a stent and at a rehab session the cardiac rehab nurse told us that even our GP shouldn't change our prescriptions without confirmation from the cardiologist.

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 8 Dec 2018, 8:52am

pete75 wrote:It's getting serious when the government is thinking of letting pharmacists change prescriptions due to drug shortages. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 72021.html I take heart medication after a stent and at a rehab session the cardiac rehab nurse told us that even our GP shouldn't change our prescriptions without confirmation from the cardiologist.
Indeed. My situation would be less critical, perhaps, but I too have been advised not under any circumstances to stop my meds without consulting my GP first.

This sort of development might be just the thing to tip the scales towards violent insurrection. Could we face that? How many people would be prepared to procure a gun, say, and be prepared to use it? Who else remembers that iconic (and rarely screened) movie from the 1960s, The War Game?

Quite frankly, I'd sooner live under a Soviet-style dictatorship.
Pete

Et qui rit des curés d'Oc?/De Meuse raines, houp! de cloques./De quelles loques ce turque coin./Et ne d'anes ni rennes,/Ecuries des curés d'Oc. - Louis d'Antin

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 8 Dec 2018, 9:20am

661-Pete wrote:
pete75 wrote:It's getting serious when the government is thinking of letting pharmacists change prescriptions due to drug shortages. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 72021.html I take heart medication after a stent and at a rehab session the cardiac rehab nurse told us that even our GP shouldn't change our prescriptions without confirmation from the cardiologist.
Indeed. My situation would be less critical, perhaps, but I too have been advised not under any circumstances to stop my meds without consulting my GP first.

This sort of development might be just the thing to tip the scales towards violent insurrection. Could we face that? How many people would be prepared to procure a gun, say, and be prepared to use it? Who else remembers that iconic (and rarely screened) movie from the 1960s, The War Game?

Quite frankly, I'd sooner live under a Soviet-style dictatorship.


Only extracts on youtube but the BFI do it on a DVD along with Culloden. What I've watched recently and is relevant to this thread because it covers some of the issues leading to the Brexit vote albeit in 1978 is David Edgar's Play For Today Destiny.
It's about the employment of immigrant workers leading to tensions over pay and conditions, declining fortunes of the lower middle class, effects of big business on little businesses and how some of those those affected turned to a far right BNP/UKIP type party. Good cast too. Nigel Hawthorn, Iain Cuthbertson, Saeed Jaffrey, Colin Jeavons,Peter Jeffrey, Rosalie Crutchley..
Colin Jeavons is a small shopkeeper put out of business by a large corporation which has bought his shop or rather the whole street. He then stands as candidate for the right wing party at a local by election but at the end of the play discovers the party is funded, for their own purposes, by big businesses and shady money men including the very corporation which took his business away.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 8 Dec 2018, 10:05am

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Anyone else note that Mr Farage has left UKIP?


Yeah. Farage was quite happy when they were "... fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists "

His clutching at pearls now the racism is out in the open is nauseating, frankly.

Farage,along with BoJo,Fox,May,Moggie,etc have always been nauseating.


And Blair Getting his oar In Still is.

See it’s not just Brexittears that can be so Stubborn .
Priority Is Still 500K In 24......Just Dreaming..............Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp.....
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 8 Dec 2018, 10:33am

Well, I must say this whole Brexit lark is going just swimmingly, and uniting the country too.

Let's press on shall we?

Tally ho!

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 8 Dec 2018, 10:44am

roubaixtuesday wrote:Well, I must say this whole Brexit lark is going just swimmingly, and uniting the country too.

Let's press on shall we?

Tally ho!

I was trawling through all the brexit argument threads on the various social media and the one thing that struck me is whereas two years ago most leavers gave a reason (immigration, NHS windfall, taking back control etc) now they're almost to a man simply saying (well, shouting) "OUT" without any reason given at all...

This of course shouldn't be a surprise, the human condition is such that folk won't back down when they're wrong and given most leave arguments have pretty much all been laid to rest then they've simply run out and have no qualifying statements to add to what they think.

Reminds me of motorists and cyclists; "road tax", "RLJ'ing", "two abreast", "no insurance" etc etc.
When you strip away all the nonsense the truth is they just don't like cyclists but have no valid reason for that viewpoint...

I wonder if cyclists tend to be over represented amongst remainers? Certainly the poll on here suggests it to be the case.

<edit> fixed - cheers R2
Last edited by kwackers on 8 Dec 2018, 11:19am, edited 1 time in total.

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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby 661-Pete » 8 Dec 2018, 10:58am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:See it’s not just Brexittears that can be so Stubborn .
That's not an argument that will win anyone over, sorry.

Any reason why we shouldn't be stubborn? After all, what we perceive amounts to a gross travesty of 'democracy' - a miscarriage of justice, so to speak. And victims of a miscarriage of justice, or their friends and relatives, do tend to be stubborn. Sometimes they get a result.

As most of us see it, the referendum result was unsafe; fatally flawed. So we'll continue to be 'stubborn' until justice is done.
Last edited by 661-Pete on 8 Dec 2018, 10:59am, edited 1 time in total.
Pete

Et qui rit des curés d'Oc?/De Meuse raines, houp! de cloques./De quelles loques ce turque coin./Et ne d'anes ni rennes,/Ecuries des curés d'Oc. - Louis d'Antin

Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 8 Dec 2018, 10:58am

I'm a motorist and a cyclist. I am old and voted 'remain'. I sometimes wear a helmet and sometimes don't.

I have never voted Tory or UKIP.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 8 Dec 2018, 11:18am

kwackers wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Well, I must say this whole Brexit lark is going just swimmingly, and uniting the country too.

Let's press on shall we?

Tally ho!

I was trawling through all the brexit argument threads on the various social media and the one thing that struck me is whereas two years ago most leavers gave a reason (immigration, NHS windfall, taking back control etc) now they're almost to a man simply saying (well, shouting) "OUT" without any reason given at all...

This of course shouldn't be a surprise, the human condition is such that folk won't back down when they're wrong and given most leave arguments have pretty much all been laid to rest then they've simply run out and have no qualifying statements to add to what they think.

Reminds me of motorists and cyclists; "road tax", "RLJ'ing", "two abreast", "no insurance" etc etc.
When you strip away all the nonsense the truth is they just don't like cyclists but have no valid reason for that viewpoint...

I wonder if cyclists tend to be over represented amongst leavers? Certainly the poll on here suggests it to be the case.

Do you mean remainers as leavers seem to be in the minority on the forum?

I was having a new battery fitted to my car earlier in the week and got chatting with a leaver in the waiting room.He got quite irate that we weren't just 'walking away' from the EU,on further questioning his whole argument was a non starter ie;the UK pays the most into the EU,the EU is controlling our fishing rights,the EU answers to no one and is controlled entirely by faceless unelected beaurocrats,etc.
I agreed with him that the EU wasn't perfect,but that we were better off in it so we can have a seat at the table if only from an economic POV.But the more I calmly explained why his beliefs were unfounded the more irate he became,his mind was made up and he couldn't put a counter argument forward.
I backed off,more for the sake of his blood pressure than anything,but it struck me just how unreasonably divided the country is on the issue.

The other worrying thing about this encounter was that there were two young women in their 20's in the waiting room and I asked their opinion of it all,both openly admitted they hadn't clue about any of it,I explained that it was all about their future,both said they didn't get involved in politics :? .
Which IMHO says more about politicians than anything,removed and aloof and totally disconected from real people.
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francovendee
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby francovendee » 8 Dec 2018, 12:15pm

Reohn2. Agreed it's the politicians who have turned people away from politics in part, It's also because people only have athe attention span of a gnat and just look for arguments put into very simplistic terms and sometimes it's not easy to do this. The Brexit bus was something people saw and remembered. The Arguments Cameron put forward were poor but I can't think of a remain form of Battle Bus that would get through to these people.
With respect to supporters of brexit on here, the reasons for leaving are irrational. No matter what you show in damage to the country they'd still leave at any cost.
There is talk of 'peoples vote' , if this happened I'm not certain that Farage and co wouldn't get their wish and we'd just leave with no deal.
A number of people we know, who we thought weren't extreme leavers, are now saying they are just fed up with the whole thing and we should just leave and get on with it.