Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

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al_yrpal
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby al_yrpal » 11 Feb 2019, 3:44pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
These days in Britain one has to be PC otherwise the Plod / Moderators / Religious Plod etc will step in. In America everyone is free to say what they want, so we are considerably less free than them.


And look what they get for president! A man who also rants against so-called political correctness because he likes to belittle black people, disabled people, gay people, women, educated people, journalists, Muslims, poor people, ill people, Mexicans.

Identify with such if you wish.


Yes, I was thinking of Trump.

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby Bez » 11 Feb 2019, 3:55pm

thirdcrank wrote:On an arguably different subject, the expression "ethnic minority" has been used to move away from theories based on "race." The word "ethnic" is now bandied about as a noun, imbued with as much racism as the words it has replaced.


The use of adjectives as a noun to describe someone other than oneself is almost always inherently an act of bigotry: it is inherently taking a single aspect of a person and defining them by it, creating a group by which that definition can be generalised. There are a few examples where we can normally do so without adverse consequences (gender, nationality and profession) but even these can easily be picked up and used as a weapon by those who want to. It happens with adverbs, too: it's never occurred to me to say to anyone "I'm a cyclist", even long before I came to loathe the term—I've always said "I ride bikes". When was the last time you saw someone having a rant in the paper about "people who ride bikes even though they also often walk and probably also drive a car"? They don't, because without a simplistic noun to cling on to, bigotry starts to look like the moronic hate that it actually is.
Last edited by Bez on 11 Feb 2019, 3:59pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby Bez » 11 Feb 2019, 3:58pm

al_yrpal wrote:
A man who … likes to belittle black people, disabled people, gay people, women, educated people, journalists, Muslims, poor people, ill people, Mexicans.

Identify with such if you wish.


Yes


Saying you don't like political correctness because you wish to identify with someone who belittles others by group is, if nothing else*, refreshingly honest.




* although it definitely is something else

reohn2
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby reohn2 » 11 Feb 2019, 4:03pm

merseymouth wrote: .......I think a reality check is needed. TTFN MM


Dictionary definition:-
PC= "the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against".
Blackboard I'd say is self evident,as is blackmail.
Faggots can be meatballs made from offal,or a bundle of sticks,(didn't know that),or a term used in embroidery for joining by faggoting,(I didn't know that either)
Gay means happy.
GAY as in homosexual is an acronym for Good As You
Non of these terms are offensive and are in common use.
You are wrong on so many levels it's hardly worth the effort to even begin to explai and the only reality check needed is by yourself.

EDIT, BTW who are 'they"?
Last edited by reohn2 on 11 Feb 2019, 4:21pm, edited 4 times in total.
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landsurfer
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby landsurfer » 11 Feb 2019, 4:09pm

My son, gay, and his partner Zac often bemoan the fact that their not "special" anymore ....
When they came out and until about 10 years ago they where special .. Gay and Proud ... in your face gay pride ...

Not any more .... Not even chased for their " pink pound " these days ..

Everybody's so PC they can't rattle anyones cages anymore ... :lol:
Last edited by landsurfer on 11 Feb 2019, 4:21pm, edited 1 time in total.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby al_yrpal » 11 Feb 2019, 4:16pm

Bez wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
A man who … likes to belittle black people, disabled people, gay people, women, educated people, journalists, Muslims, poor people, ill people, Mexicans.

Identify with such if you wish.


Yes


Saying you don't like political correctness because you wish to identify with someone who belittles others by group is, if nothing else*, refreshingly honest.




* although it definitely is something else


Twisting peoples words to suit your own predjudices is insulting. I never said I identified with Trump, I just had him in mind. He is just a very obvious example of how folk in the US can say anything they want to,

Al
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landsurfer
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby landsurfer » 11 Feb 2019, 4:21pm

al_yrpal wrote:Twisting peoples words to suit your own predjudices is insulting. I never said I identified with Trump, I just had him in mind. He is just a very obvious example of how folk in the US can say anything they want to,

Al


Twisting peoples words should have it's own topic heading on this forum .... :D
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby reohn2 » 11 Feb 2019, 4:26pm

al_yrpal wrote:These days in Britain one has to be PC otherwise the Plod / Moderators / Religious Plod etc will step in. In America everyone is free to say what they want, so we are considerably less free than them.

Oh pleeze :?

I dislike the effects of PC and agree with Rowan Atkinson that its had a bad effect on Comedy. The BBC would not repeat Its Aint Half Hot Mum for this reason.

Al

Then perhaps the comedians will have think a little harder to get their laughs.
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slowster
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby slowster » 11 Feb 2019, 4:30pm

thirdcrank wrote:Shortly after retiring in 1997, I was in a group where the first item was personal introductions (not so sophisticated as interviewing your neighbour and then introducing them, but you get the picture.) Part of the format included describing family circumstances and I used the expression "my wife" which provoked a venomous response inquiring whether I thought she was my personal property? Well no: one of the conditions on which she agreed to marry me was that I should never refer to her as "The Wife" and I've kept to that. The next point of information was that the word "wife" is value-laden and that "partner" should be used. And so on. In their turn, the person who had jumped on me said "my partner" and I did not react.

I suspect that sort of 'political correctness' is the result of those people either being:

- well meaning and wishing to ensure that no one is offended, but immature/not as intelligent as they think they are, with the result that they have latched on to some glib concepts without thinking them through, as demonstrated by the hypocrisy of "my partner".

- mischievous or just plain unpleasant individuals who do that sort of thing in order to put other people on the back foot and make them walk on egg shells in what they do and say for fear of getting it wrong. They are more interested in gaining and asserting dominance in any interaction with others, than in persuading others of the merits of their arguments and convincing them of the need to behave differently.

Given that you had just retired, I suspect the person who said that to you was much younger (30s or 40s maybe?), and would have derived some shallow immature pleasure from putting down a much older person.

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby kwackers » 11 Feb 2019, 4:38pm

slowster wrote:Given that you had just retired, I suspect the person who said that to you was much younger (30s or 40s maybe?), and would have derived some shallow immature pleasure from putting down a much older person.

Political correctness is a tool.
PC, not PC or genuinely couldn't-give-a-fig its most frequent use is as a put down for some other person/group etc.
Even when the put down isn't directly aimed it's used/misused to gainsay approval from one's peers.

It appears to me that there's no aspect of anything that we won't subvert to further our political/social leanings.

The only bit that annoys me about PC is often it's the word and not the intent that gets people fired up.

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby Mistik-ka » 11 Feb 2019, 4:43pm

Often when people complain about political correctness, what they really mean is that they object to being unable to indulge their prejudices, and they don't like being made to feel uncomfortable about holding prejudiced opinions and views.

Thank you for that analysis, slowster. I've struggled to find a framework within which I can respond to the term "politically correct", since it doesn't mean "politically correct" at all. This helps.

Language is always in flux, and change is rarely comfortable or simple, even when the outcome is a worthy one. With the best of intentions I still struggle to make my terminology non-sexist, non-racist, inclusive, and so forth.

It's been easy to replace "wife" with non-gender-specific "spouse" or "partner" depending on context, but it's the use of the possessive "my" that still seems wrong to me. "The spouse of me" or "the person to whom I am espoused" are more than a little clumsy. With St. Valentine's Day just around the corner there's always "my love", I suppose … but there's that annoying possessive adjective again. Usually the best way around it is to refer to her by name, but this is only satisfactory if people already know who she is. "Mrs. Mistik-ka" (or better yet "Ms. M-k") is the perfect solution, but it has little application outside this forum.)

"Her Upstairs" gave both Ms. M-k and me a chuckle because of its economical portrayal of social relationships. When we're on the tandem I could refer to "Her on the Back", probably with a dismissive flick of the thumb, but that would only invite well-deserved retaliation from an undefended direction for the next hour of pedalling. :shock:

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Feb 2019, 4:54pm

If I refer to my maternal grandmother, I don't think I'm implying any sort of ownership, but rather trying to use the most succinct expression I know to make it clear that I am referring to the person who gave birth to the person who gave birth to me.

===============================================================================================

Which has reminded me that it's almost 50 years since we bought - or rather began to buy - our first house. (Dec 1969) We did so in joint names, which in those days was still rather cutting edge. One of the documents referred to Mr Thirdcrank (not my real name :wink: ) and Mrs Thirdcrank, his wife. (Not her real name either.)

I don't suppose they still use that form of words.
Last edited by thirdcrank on 11 Feb 2019, 5:12pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Feb 2019, 5:09pm

thirdcrank wrote:If I refer to my maternal grandmother, I don't think I'm implying any sort of ownership, but rather trying to use the most succinct expression I know to make it clear that I am referring to the person who gave birth to the person who gave birth to me.
Likewise, if I happen to say "my train is late" I'm not claiming ownership of said conveyance! If I say "I'm on my way to the supermarket" it doesn't mean I own the road I'm cycling on! (unlike some motorists, judging by their antics...)

Twisting normal English usage just to score an absurd point is a no-no.
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Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby hondated » 11 Feb 2019, 5:09pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi there, I think that the problem with the "PC" mob is that they appear to want us to live in a vacuum!
They hijack our language, so I can no longer think of having a "Gay Box" to put on the wall! I am not supposed to eat "Faggots" these days! Nice in gravy.
I have to avoid saying "Blackboard", even though it is clearly a board and black in colour! "Blackmail" is an offence not for the actual extortion attempt, but for the Non_PC language!
If I go any further I will get abused in the same way Liam Neeson has. I heard it said that "Thinking" about committing a crime is actually n act of doing a crime? Well that would mean that all Crime Fiction & Who done its are crimes in their own right?
I think a reality check is needed. TTFN MM

mm you've actually got what I was getting at, thanks.

On your point on crime I actually know someone who was convicted of " intending to handle stolen goods " :wink: Unbelievable.

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Re: Simple Question: Is anyone else fed up with having to be PC ?

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Feb 2019, 5:12pm

Mistik-ka wrote:It's been easy to replace "wife" with non-gender-specific "spouse" or "partner" depending on context, but it's the use of the possessive "my" that still seems wrong to me. "The spouse of me" or "the person to whom I am espoused" are more than a little clumsy. With St. Valentine's Day just around the corner there's always "my love", I suppose … but there's that annoying possessive adjective again. Usually the best way around it is to refer to her by name, but this is only satisfactory if people already know who she is. "Mrs. Mistik-ka" (or better yet "Ms. M-k") is the perfect solution, but it has little application outside this forum.)
"SWMBO"? Errr..... perhaps not.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).