** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Debs
Posts: 347
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Debs » 14 Mar 2019, 9:13pm

A General Election would be a completely useless waste of time right now, both front benches of Con & Lab want their own unachievable Brexits. Both leaderships would be tempted to field candidates who support Brexit - crafty selected for brown nose duty.
The electorate wouldn't know any better, most aren't clever enough.
And whatever the result [ another Tory win probably ] we would end up with the same chaos in the HoC arguing about Brexit rubbish instead of elected MPs running the country like they are supposed to.

A confirmation referendum would obviously produce a clear Remain win this time around. That's obvious, the UK has become far more Pro-EU over the past 3 years, and; estimated well over half a million 2016 Leave voters have passed away since, and we have millions of new younger electorate itching to vote their future back. Plus many who voted Leave last time really have changed their minds...

mercalia
Posts: 9628
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 14 Mar 2019, 9:26pm

I wonder if there is a legal agument to the effect that denying a new referendum disenfranchises those who now can vote and even denies them their human rights? It is now getting on 3 years ago? the longer brexit is delayed the larger the issue?

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 8865
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 14 Mar 2019, 9:33pm

mr bajokoses wrote:
PH wrote:
100%JR wrote:MPs to vote today on giving the pubic a 2nd Referendum vote.........

Not supported by the Peoples Vote campaign or the Labour Party, it'll fail badly and damage the chances of getting a second vote, this from an Independent Group MP, typically not thought through.


A brexit game to amuse us all:

Referendum choices for the ballot paper:
1. No deal? Already rejected by parliament.
2. May's deal? Already rejected twice by parliament.
3. Remain? ERG/DUP won't like that.

Can anyone come up with a combination of choices for a referendum question that will pass through parliament?


I was lied to and misled by a group with personal interests in the chaos....I haves changed my mind now I know the truth

thirdcrank
Posts: 28005
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Mar 2019, 9:44pm

It's by no means obvious to me that another referendum would result in a vote to remain. I suspect that a lot of people who didn't vote last time assumed that the result was a foregone conclusion in favour of Remain. If I'm right then the key might be somehow to motivate those people to vote. I hesitate to describe them as having abstained, which would imply not wanting either of the choices on offer, but there's no obvious missing third choice. It's possible, of course, that people of either persuasion thought that a Remain result was inevitable so mobilizing more of them could still take it either way.

I think that last time, the extent of UK voters' negativity was underestimated ie the tendency to vote against what you don't want, rather than for what you want. Presumably, the members of political parties vote for their own party, but I fancy a lot of the others are motivated by animosity rather than support.

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 8738
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby horizon » 14 Mar 2019, 10:19pm

thirdcrank wrote:It's by no means obvious to me that another referendum would result in a vote to remain.


Sadly, I agree. But AFAIK it's the only reasonable way forward to reverse Brexit. Even then, the cries of "Betrayal!" will use up most of the Daily Mail's ink and paper stocks. Time, however is on Remain's side, glacially slow though the change is.

Even I can see a trend here and I'm no statistician:

http://britainelects.com/polling/europe/
Let's just stay!

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 2229
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 14 Mar 2019, 10:49pm

thirdcrank wrote:
I think that last time, the extent of UK voters' negativity was underestimated ie the tendency to vote against what you don't want, rather than for what you want. Presumably, the members of political parties vote for their own party, but I fancy a lot of the others are motivated by animosity rather than support.


Can't disagree with any of the whole post..... And yet, if the self harm becomes palpable, then perhaps at that private moment in the ballot box?
Swindon?
Broughton?

And actually what was so terrible about pre Brexit Britain that it is worth so much division and strife.
After all it is clear that the EU would recognise the dissatifaction of the UK. Or at least that is my view.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 16277
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 15 Mar 2019, 9:05am

May cannot afford a general election, if she wants to remain PM.

She said she would resign before the next general election. She lost the Tory majority in the last one. She has lost several MPs and lost control of enough of the rest to fail to pass her Brexit deal. IMO, of all the choices on the table, now, a GE is last one she wants, and probably the last one most of party want. Even if she refused to resign, I doubt she'd keep her job.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

reohn2
Posts: 32970
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Mar 2019, 9:14am

PDQ Mobile wrote:
And actually what was so terrible about pre Brexit Britain that it is worth so much division and strife.

The worst UK government since in modern times?



After all it is clear that the EU would recognise the dissatifaction of the UK. Or at least that is my view.

Without a doubt but they still wish us to remain for the good of the whole.
Little Englanders OTOH would cut off their own nose tovzpite their face!
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 681
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Mar 2019, 9:22am

Yesterday we saw the farce of the Brexit Secretary giving a speech urging the House to support to Government proposal then voting against it. Mr Integrity!

You couldn't make it up.
John

Cycling and recycling

kwackers
Posts: 12560
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 15 Mar 2019, 9:25am

Vorpal wrote:May cannot afford a general election, if she wants to remain PM.

She said she would resign before the next general election. She lost the Tory majority in the last one. She has lost several MPs and lost control of enough of the rest to fail to pass her Brexit deal. IMO, of all the choices on the table, now, a GE is last one she wants, and probably the last one most of party want. Even if she refused to resign, I doubt she'd keep her job.

OTOH if I was her I'd see a GE and her automatic resignation as a way of dodging the crap.
Bit like shutting your front door when you step in out of a storm, the sense of relief and the need for a nice cuppa and a sit down.

She'd be mad not to call it - imo. ;)

reohn2
Posts: 32970
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Mar 2019, 9:30am

Oldjohnw wrote:Yesterday we saw the farce of the Brexit Secretary giving a speech urging the House to support to Government proposal then voting against it. Mr Integrity!

You couldn't make it up.


I think they do day by day :twisted:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 12051
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 15 Mar 2019, 9:33am

MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 8865
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 15 Mar 2019, 9:38am

reohn2 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Yesterday we saw the farce of the Brexit Secretary giving a speech urging the House to support to Government proposal then voting against it. Mr Integrity!

You couldn't make it up.


I think they do day by day :twisted:


Seems very reasonable....

The speech is his job, the vote is personal

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 12051
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 15 Mar 2019, 9:39am

Oldjohnw wrote:Yesterday we saw the farce of the Brexit Secretary giving a speech urging the House to support to Government proposal then voting against it. Mr Integrity!

You couldn't make it up.

Very strange and hard to reconcile vote and speech without Mr Barclay either being a liar or working against the national interest: https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/stephen ... amendment/
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

reohn2
Posts: 32970
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Mar 2019, 9:42am

kwackers wrote:
Vorpal wrote:May cannot afford a general election, if she wants to remain PM.

She said she would resign before the next general election. She lost the Tory majority in the last one. She has lost several MPs and lost control of enough of the rest to fail to pass her Brexit deal. IMO, of all the choices on the table, now, a GE is last one she wants, and probably the last one most of party want. Even if she refused to resign, I doubt she'd keep her job.

OTOH if I was her I'd see a GE and her automatic resignation as a way of dodging the crap.
Bit like shutting your front door when you step in out of a storm, the sense of relief and the need for a nice cuppa and a sit down.

She'd be mad not to call it - imo. ;)

Only trouble is there's no roof on the house coz she didn't maintain it,the windows fell out years ago,the gas was turned off by the ulitities coz she didn't pay the bill and in the eagerness to shut out the storm that rages,she traps her simulated leopardskin shoed foot in the door breaking her ankle........
Only to turn around in disbelief to find a family of immigrants have taken residence whilst she was securing the borders :shock:
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.