Thank you

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reohn2
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Re: Thank you

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jun 2019, 11:09am

Bonefishblues wrote:That's very kind feedback :D

+1
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Cugel
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Re: Thank you

Postby Cugel » 13 Jun 2019, 11:35am

From one perspective, classifying certain preponderances to various kinds of behaviour might be useful in understanding the various habits of oneself and others. Many actions and beliefs might be illuminated (although not explained away) by an understanding of these preponderences or predelictions of behaviour.

From another perspective, a lot of the names and associated classifications of "behavioural types" are invented by psychiatrists and others out of their sometimes strange theories, cultural prejudices (yes, even scientists have them) and so forth. It's too easy to invent a name for a supposed "syndrome" then stick that label on people and pretend that this somehow defines them.

Personally I'm very wary of such syndrome-names. Whilst they can be a shortcut to saying "I'm a bit like this" they can also be a vehicle for stereotyping then belittling or dismissing someone and their behaviours or views out-of-hand.

Different epochs and cultures come up with all sorts of different and sometimes contradictory ways of describing behaviours and beliefs that fall away from the fat bit of the then-bellcurve defining "normal". That bellcurve also changes with what's regarded as "normal" through history and geography. Once it was normal in Europe and Britain to think of women as almost sub-human and to treat them so. "Everyone" did it. Ditto violent behaviours as "normal" modes of interpersonal control or dispute-resolution. These behaviours hang on but become abnormal. Sometimes they get called a mental illness, despite "everyone" once behaving like that 50 or 150 years ago.

****
In addition, a lot of our modern mental "aberations" or "abnormalities" are regarded as due to some sort of physical fault when they may just be culturally-induced. Many behaviours of those on the Asperger's spectrum are similar or identical to those who are, for example, not well socialised or who are very highly educated or who have been brought up to lack empathy. Are such people on the Asperger's spectrum (defined as being fundamentally like that from a genetic disposition) or can they have their personality changed by cultural manipulation?

I've known a small number of people reputedly with Aspergers and a few more reputedly autistic. I know some who are "clinically depressed" and plenty who show degrees of paranoia. I no longer think of them as "ill" or "abnormal" just "a bit different". I relate to them as best I can, which is generally sufficient for both of us. The "illness" or "abnormality" or "disabled" labels are, I find, of no real help in forming such relationships. They include far too many assumptions, such as the idea that there's a "fault" involved. Different iis not the same as faulty.

Cugel

skyhawk
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Re: Thank you

Postby skyhawk » 13 Jun 2019, 11:54am

Tangled Metal wrote:One thing mick, and the op, at what age were you diagnosed? I'm just curious because I've never been diagnosed got ADHD and at mid forties doubt I ever will (not just because it takes an average of at least 2 years of persistence to get referred to someone to get a diagnosis on adhd. Plus I've not got use patience).

Another thought, perhaps not diplomatic, but are there any regular posters on here that you think could be ASD or adhd but not diagnosed or gone public? Don't answer that.



I was a single father of three ADHD sons since their mother walked out on them and placed them for adoption at 7, 6 and 4, after 18 months I won custody, even social services nor the schools could cope with them, two social workers came to take them out to give me a rest and brought them back after 30 minutes, I had them 24/7, it never occurred to me I could be Autistic until I was finally diagnosed at 60

I fall out with people a lot (hence my comment in my personal section below), I always have, I speak without thinking I KNOW what I want to say but say it in a way that can offend.

I find NOW that being open about it makes ME feel better and people make allowances.

Again thanks all.

This is Wales but you can self refer yourself now even in the UK. PERSIST, NEVER GIVE UP AND SHOUT ABOUT GETTING DIAGNOSED, WEEK AFTER WEEK AFTER WEEK UNTIL THEY GET SICK OF YOU

UK

https://www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/adults.aspx
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

Tangled Metal
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Re: Thank you

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Jun 2019, 12:05pm

Hmmmm! I dispute a lot of what you said but there's still kind of truth there deep down. So I'll dispute a few comments and take it from there.

You're not accepting widely accepted science in writing off syndromes (AIUI actually called disorders) as psychiatrist's imagined syndromes for different behaviour. Or if not that you're being more than a bit sceptical as to the advantages of such a label for disorders. Indeed it seems that these are behavioural only. Perhaps you can change them back to normal?? That's the implication I suppose I took from your post, probably wrong inference but your colourful prose can confuse me at times.

AIUI ASD and ADHD isn't the behaviours if you like they are the symptoms. The cough with a cold, the bleeding with a cut out the cloudy vision with a cateract. They're symptoms of a disorder or atypical brain patterns. Or something like that.

It can be measured in various ways of which. AIUI from the TV programme I saw on it neuroscience has got imaging techniques which can detect even the least obvious cases of asd in a way not been possible before.

This is not a current fashion in classification it's more than that. Whatever name has been put on it that isn't what it is. It's a real disorder that's not being disputed by current neuroscience AFAIK but has been accepted the is psychiatric journal for conditions recognised by the US medical science community and their appropriate specialists has contained asd and ADHD for decades. That journal is widely used worldwide as the accepted list of conditions and disorders. Indeed the EU 's version of this simply copies the American one. Other nations do the same.

Basically I'm saying whatever your view on medicine don't downgrade disorders like asd or ADHD for any doubts or suspicions you have over medical science. It's real not made up.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your meaning and the above is irrelevant.

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Mick F
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Re: Thank you

Postby Mick F » 13 Jun 2019, 12:24pm

Screen Shot 2019-06-13 at 12.24.00.png
Mick F. Cornwall

Tangled Metal
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Re: Thank you

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Jun 2019, 12:38pm

skyhawk wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:One thing mick, and the op, at what age were you diagnosed? I'm just curious because I've never been diagnosed got ADHD and at mid forties doubt I ever will (not just because it takes an average of at least 2 years of persistence to get referred to someone to get a diagnosis on adhd. Plus I've not got use patience).

Another thought, perhaps not diplomatic, but are there any regular posters on here that you think could be ASD or adhd but not diagnosed or gone public? Don't answer that.



I was a single father of three ADHD sons since their mother walked out on them and placed them for adoption at 7, 6 and 4, after 18 months I won custody, even social services nor the schools could cope with them, two social workers came to take them out to give me a rest and brought them back after 30 minutes, I had them 24/7, it never occurred to me I could be Autistic until I was finally diagnosed at 60

I fall out with people a lot (hence my comment in my personal section below), I always have, I speak without thinking I KNOW what I want to say but say it in a way that can offend.

I find NOW that being open about it makes ME feel better and people make allowances.

Again thanks all.

This is Wales but you can self refer yourself now even in the UK. PERSIST, NEVER GIVE UP AND SHOUT ABOUT GETTING DIAGNOSED, WEEK AFTER WEEK AFTER WEEK UNTIL THEY GET SICK OF YOU

UK

https://www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/adults.aspx

Thank you for posting this I really should persist with diagnosis. I have waves of good times and bad times which I think is ADHD related. I'm a big one for burying my head in the sand too. When I am in real fear of losing my job I get motivated and see my gp. But mostly I'm hanging on. The inability to find a way out of my relatively safe rut is possibly one of my biggest issues.

That was a late diagnosis but I have heard of similar. One Canadian or American lady on an ADHD forum semi retired from a very successful, professorial, academic career at mid 60s then got diagnosed. She was very articulate and educated. Very successful but lived with ADHD, possibly benefitted from it at times too. Amazing what can be coped with.

One of my strategies is keys kept with wallet in one location in the house. If it car keys aren't there I am a bit too quick to go ballistic. I suspect that's a fear response though, due to fear of losing important things. It leads me to having series of behaviour patterns about certain things. Not following them makes me nervous and prone to excessive double checking.

As to what I say, well I don't think I'm impulsive but I do get accusations if being insensitive at times or going too far. My humour isn't too everyone's taste, or indeed anyone's.

BTW good job on what you have done / are doing with your kids. Always impressed by parents who manage on their own. Add in the extras you and your children are living with...

skyhawk
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Re: Thank you

Postby skyhawk » 13 Jun 2019, 12:39pm

Mick F wrote:Screen Shot 2019-06-13 at 12.24.00.png



:) :) :)
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

skyhawk
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Re: Thank you

Postby skyhawk » 13 Jun 2019, 12:42pm

Remember too that NOW in the UK ASD/Autism IS a DISABILITY and as such you can now apply for Mobility or PIP.

YES I do get Mobility for my Autism, it was a fight but I never give up and am not ashamed of getting it, still a single father :)
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Thank you

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Jun 2019, 12:42pm

Mick F wrote:Screen Shot 2019-06-13 at 12.24.00.png

I read it was more like 3 or 4 spectra not a single spectrum. Certainly that way with ADD/ADHD but I believe ASD too.

Interesting how it's any colour and spectrum. Rainbow colouring if you like. Isn't that for pride network and LGTBQQA+ flags? Does that mean there's any similarities between acceptance of both communities? Are asd people in a fight for acceptance as they are not as society wants them to be to fit in? For for thought perhaps, or just my weird thought processes.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Thank you

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Jun 2019, 12:52pm

As a disability you'd probably get more employment protection too. Not sure if ADHD has classed as a disability.

There's a guy at work who has problems. He was very much normal once (by societal measures) and even a competitive runner for County. Running 10 miles each way to work. Now he's 50 odd and has behavioural and physical disabilities which nobody knows what it is. He swears he's OK but he is not safe in a manufacturing company. But they can't let him go so he's supposed to be escorted to and from his work station for everything. An occupational nurse was brought in too for employment law reasons. He's possibly the most protected employee.

No issues with that because he's basically nice and nearly harmless. Plus he's actually clever and knowledgeable. For my place of work that's a good exception!

I only say this because of diagnosed with ADHD and if it's classed as a disability then my employers possibly have to take it into account. That would also explain my deficiencies and mistakes they'd have to take action to b assist me with that I suspect or at least take it into account in any disciplinary situation.

Not sure I want to have to play that card though, if I can of course.

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Mick F
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Re: Thank you

Postby Mick F » 13 Jun 2019, 12:56pm

Since the realisation of my issues (note I don't think of myself being disabled or suffering) I'm more able to understand and pander to my likes and dislikes - to the continual disparagement of Mrs Mick F! :lol:

Now I'm more understanding of myself, I'll go to bed when I want, and get up when I want, no matter what time of day or night. Being retired is great. Some days - like today - I'll do absolutely nothing (though I will walk the dog later) and some days I'm like a Whirling Dervish as the fancy takes me.

Sometimes I yearn to be in a pitch dark room insulated from the sounds and worries of the world around me. Sort of switched off and in standby mode.

It's Fathers Day on Sunday and the family is coming round. We'll have a house-full. If it were up to me in a selfish way, I'd tell them all to bugger off and leave me alone in peace and quiet ............... but I won't because I shouldn't. I will enjoy it, but at this very moment in time, I want to run away and hide.

........... and thank you all for allowing me to get it off my chest.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Pastychomper
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Re: Thank you

Postby Pastychomper » 13 Jun 2019, 1:19pm

I have a brother who was diagnosed with Asperger's in his 40s. He showed none of the usual signs before at least age 30, so it did look as if he "caught" it. One possible explanation is that he had been good at simulating neurotypical behaviour but lost either the ability or the desire to do so. Another is that he was more-or-less NT but suffered some kind of "damage" (likely as a result of stress) that left him with symptoms similar to Aspergers. The main thing is he gets on fine now and excels in those tasks that suit his way of thinking.

Both he and our mother told a funny story after he was diagnosed. The diagnosis involved a long interview asking if he'd shown various behaviours as a child, and her answer to each one was "No, but [Pastychomper] did."

One expert I know seems to think I don't fit the Aspergers definition, but the fact remains there is something... odd about me. I haven't chased a diagnosis so far, mainly because I can live with it, and other people either don't notice, or put up with it ... or don't.

FWIW I thought Cugel was saying the "differences" in autism are not necessarily disorders, and shouldn't be treated as if they are. I agree, at least mostly. Some people need extra help to cope with life, and they should get it, even if they need help realising it. Others might use the label as an excuse not to try, and that would be a shame. Worse, some just refuse to work with people who carry such a label, which is somewhere between unfair and downright maladaptive. I think "neurotypicals" through the ages have benefited enormously from at least some of the traits of people who would now be considered to be on (one of) the spectrum(s).
Everyone's ghast should get a good flabbering now and then.
--Ole Boot

Tangled Metal
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Re: Thank you

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Jun 2019, 2:00pm

That's a difficult decision to make, that you can live with it without getting a diagnosis and any form of help managing it. How do you know that you are living with it?

What I mean is you only know life with it in its natural state. What if you got diagnosed as not being ASD but being ADHD with OCD or other comorbid conditions/disorders and say CBT was prescribed and given? You could be living at a higher or better level. Better at your job, more pay, etc. Not cured by any means but effectively trained to identify problematic behaviour and change it for a better outcome. Living with it better you could say.

In my case I'm probably like you. But I know I'm better than just above minimum wage. I've two degrees and believe there's a PhD in me waiting to come out. I am certain I could get an academic career. I'm not organised or confident enough. I'm lazy. I'm this and I'm that. Look up ADHD and suddenly you could see (if you knew me well) a high degree of ADHD symptoms m and behaviours. But I'm living with it.

I have a job. I hold on to jobs for decades not months or weeks. I am close to being mortgage free (if I wanted to be). I have some very good aspects of my life but since the suspicion of ADHD came into my life I've questioned where I'm at. I know it's not a good position. But my head is on the sand and I'm only just starting to peak out.

What to do? I tried the gp referral and I have a gp and a psychiatric professional that have said I'm not depressed! So go to gp with ADHD symptoms and they try to bully me into anxiety or depression! Or at least into nice simple pills to pop. That gets me out of the gp or other service's hair. #ajokesurely.

Perhaps it's time to go back again. It would mean seeing a male doctor instead of the supportive female gp I saw last time. Although I think jess a better gp so perhaps a good referral. I'll let you know the outcome in two years time, set your watches! :D

It's a joke! But it's serious surely? What if it's something serious?

skyhawk
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Re: Thank you

Postby skyhawk » 13 Jun 2019, 2:09pm

I know what you mean and don't take offence but THIS is the sort of comment that can and still is used and taken the wrong way Tangled Metal, I assume you are not in the UK ;)

"He was very much normal once (by societal measures)

What is................... normal

"Does he take sugar" ..??? !!!!
Last edited by skyhawk on 13 Jun 2019, 2:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more

skyhawk
Posts: 296
Joined: 30 May 2019, 3:00pm

Re: Thank you

Postby skyhawk » 13 Jun 2019, 2:12pm

Mick F wrote:Since the realisation of my issues (note I don't think of myself being disabled or suffering) I'm more able to understand and pander to my likes and dislikes - to the continual disparagement of Mrs Mick F! :lol:

Now I'm more understanding of myself, I'll go to bed when I want, and get up when I want, no matter what time of day or night. Being retired is great. Some days - like today - I'll do absolutely nothing (though I will walk the dog later) and some days I'm like a Whirling Dervish as the fancy takes me.

Sometimes I yearn to be in a pitch dark room insulated from the sounds and worries of the world around me. Sort of switched off and in standby mode.

It's Fathers Day on Sunday and the family is coming round. We'll have a house-full. If it were up to me in a selfish way, I'd tell them all to bugger off and leave me alone in peace and quiet ............... but I won't because I shouldn't. I will enjoy it, but at this very moment in time, I want to run away and hide.

........... and thank you all for allowing me to get it off my chest.


:) :) :)

A good thing is that even 10 years ago no one would even post this topic anywhere
Both I and my son are Autistic. We have aspergers and ADHD, not stupid :). If I sound "blunt" in my posts, please be understanding : I am not perfect. Thank you. Visit https://www.asdinfowales.co.uk/ to learn more