I don't like living in England....

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mjr
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by mjr »

Tangled Metal wrote: 7 May 2021, 12:17am Imagine if our foreign minister said something like that in parliament. Would that get passed off as just one minister's words and as inconsequential too?
Only you say "inconsequential" not me. It is consequential but pretty hollow.

It would still be one minister's words (and the Sea Minister not the Foreign) and not "their parliament ... threatening". Parliaments rule ministers, not the other way round, but maybe sovereignty doesn't matter to some hete.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

Interesting that the Tory slogan at Hartlepool was “Vote for Change”. After 11 years in power.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Ben@Forest wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:36am
francovendee wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:18am Why is it discussions so often becomes a spate between members. Sometimes the subject does arouse strong feelings but nasty comments between members is rather depressing. You know the sort of thing, not bad enough to call in the Mod but nasty.
Why can't we disagree without it turning spiteful?
That's fair comment, but also the title of this thread is likely to raise some emotions.

There is an undercurrent on the Tea Shop that Britain but often just England is an unusually unpleasant country with unusually inept or corrupt politicians or police or bureaucracy or even citizenry and that other countries (not least Scotland if England is the target of ire) always do things better.

I know Germany well. It has as many problems as the UK. Sometimes different problems at different levels of magnitude, but serious problems nevertheless. However if l put up a thread title saying 'I don't like living in Germany' I think it could quickly be called out as racist or at least pandering to stereotypes.
Agree: it’s not just an undercurrent but a veritable riptide of dislike of one’s country. It’s very unpleasant to read some of the comments.

Note: I said some of the comments (not all) but the general thrust is exceptionally negative and sour.

We live in one of the richest countries in the world, bursting with entrepreneurial and scientific innovation, and there is lots to look forward to. Especially on the back of an Uber successful vaccination campaign.

I realise a lot of people are blinded by hatred of Johnson and wouldn’t praise him if he rescued a puppy from drowning, but it cannot be a nice or healthy perspective to be steeped in so much negativity.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Oldjohnw wrote: 6 May 2021, 4:27pm I am happy to say that the two British vessels sent to Jersey are now described as “patrol vessels” and not gunboats as described in all news outlets, some with considerable glee. Hopefully, some calm will prevail and that both the French and the Jersey authorities will get agreement.

They do, of course, carry weapons
They are fisheries protection vessels: nothing more, nothing less. Not “gunboats”. One was rescued from decommissioning due to the need to monitor fish stocks and fishing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversea ... l_Squadron

Sensibly stopping a putative blockade of the port by very excitable sailors.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Mike Sales wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:58pm
Ben@Forest wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:33pm
Vorpal wrote: 6 May 2021, 8:27pm Charity is poor substitute for support.
I'd take the RNLI as it is (and the various other volunteer lifeboats) rather than being handed over to government. If it was handed over, there would be a review and any government would tell us they can do it all just as effectively with a third fewer lifeboat stations.
I sail, and I think that the RNLI is a marvellous institution.
I am sure that the lifeboatmen are thankful that they are backed up by the government funded helicopters when necessary.
Nearly all lifeboatmen are volunteers who work at other jobs. It would be inefficient to have them standing by all the time doing nothing but wait for a shout.
Most other countries have, I believe, publically funded rescue services, usually the coast guard. I have not heard that France or the U.S.A. have poor rescue services.
Agree with your comments on the RNLI. Not only are the volunteers brave and good people but it’s a wonderful example of good spirited co-operation in a voluntary manner rather than the dead hand of government ruining the model.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by al_yrpal »

Whatever people think of Boris, his government and his policies its pretty clear that they dont think there is a viable alternative.

Al
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

Paulatic wrote: 7 May 2021, 7:45am They once hung a monkey in Hartlepool can we give credence their judgement? :wink:
Yes, I know the monkey hangers story well, as I’ve a friend from the North East, and it’s very funny.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tees-40801937

Has no relevance to the vote though.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm not sure that policies come into this much at all: it's so much more about personality. If I think back to John Major, only Tony Blair and Boris Johnson have stood out as individuals, in their different ways. What's been common to both is their self-promotion and lack of commitment to any substantial policy as such. In 1997, the Conservative Party looked finished, but in due course reality reared its head and with it growing disillusionment. And Boris Johnson will eventually go the same way. Some things are different eg Boris Johnson has cleared the decks of any political heavyweights so there's probably no obvious challenger in his own party but that means he's on his own when things begin to go wrong. I fancy Dominic Cummings poses less of a threat than some seem to imagine.
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Re: I don't like living in Engelland....

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Could bojo soon go the same way as trump, providing a lot of lucrative work for his attorneys? I did get hopeful when I saw a headline about curtains for him :?
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

markjohnobrien wrote: 7 May 2021, 10:44am
Oldjohnw wrote: 6 May 2021, 4:27pm I am happy to say that the two British vessels sent to Jersey are now described as “patrol vessels” and not gunboats as described in all news outlets, some with considerable glee. Hopefully, some calm will prevail and that both the French and the Jersey authorities will get agreement.

They do, of course, carry weapons
They are fisheries protection vessels: nothing more, nothing less. Not “gunboats”. One was rescued from decommissioning due to the need to monitor fish stocks and fishing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversea ... l_Squadron

Sensibly stopping a putative blockade of the port by very excitable sailors.
I know. Which is what I wrote! I am always happy to correct a story when evidence comes to light. The original story was largely as presented by the Telegraph and The Mail. Although I still think it was unnecessary sabre rattling and willy waving. Diplomacy was the missing ingredient on both sides. The fishermen were the least to blame. The politicians saw a chance to out-big each other. Nothing more than my opinion, of course.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 7 May 2021, 11:44am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Psamathe »

al_yrpal wrote: 7 May 2021, 10:57am Whatever people think of Boris, his government and his policies its pretty clear that they dont think there is a viable alternative.

Al
(Maybe repeating myself from different threads but anyway) I think Starmer's lack of profile and prominence is largely do to his responsibility supporting the Government during the pandemic rather that playing the perpetual disagreement games. Many political debates and changes have not been happening as the Government has to focus on handling the pandemic so there just have not been the political stance issues in the news reports.

Johnson has tried to frame Starmer as always disagreeing but in reality he's been pretty supportive. He has raised criticisms, mainly of Johnson's delays and dithering and lack of or delayed action - which puts him in a far more sensible position. If we'd had lockdowns, border action, etc. when Starmer was calling for them we'd had a lot less death and a lot better economy and far fewer with long term debilitating conditions - but that does not gain profile in news reports and if we ever get an inquiry into handling it wont be considering when Starmer was calling for action.

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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Tangled Metal »

Paulatic wrote: 7 May 2021, 7:45am They once hung a monkey in Hartlepool can we give credence their judgement? :wink:
Interesting if you look into the story. It has a lot of elements to it. It started as a comedian who had a habit of singing ditties ridiculing places he was performing at. It seems he merged a few stories and places to turn it into hartlepool and hanging a monkey as a French man. It also had elements of local rivalry between West Hartlepool and of Hartlepool where the former new industrial town growing looked down on the supposedly lower intellect of the old hartlepool. They're now one town of course.

Then there's more truth. Like years before the first hartlepool reference to monkeys a monkey got hung in a place near Peterhead in Scotland. There's a mention of cossacks with a baboon in Newcastle contemporary to the comedians ditty about hartlepool.

Then there's all the other stories about monkey hanging before the first hartlepool reference. Mevagissey in Cornwall or Slough for example.

Evidence against it include the fact no French vessel sank up the east coast during the time of the napoleonic war period. That was the only "fact" given for the time of the hanging. It was a French boat during those wars that sank with only a monkey surviving. English heritage has records of shipwrecked boats from that period and only English vessels sank.

If course its all fun now right?
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

Except that, as noted above, they elected a "monkey" as mayor, three times.
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by markjohnobrien »

But wasn’t that ironic and a play on the town’s heritage...?
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Re: I don't like living in England....

Post by Oldjohnw »

I fear the irony was lost on me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Drummond
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