Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

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Mike Sales
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by Mike Sales »

jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:45pm
Il put my cycling credentials up against anybody, I've been one since 1966, I missed the world cup final as I was out on my bike, it doesn't get more dedicated than that

It's got far far worse since the 2012 related cycling boom, it almost like every idiot for miles around thought, " il get a bike"

In a non scientific survey, I'd assess that 40% of cyclists are inconsiderate idiots, and another 50% are dangerous inconsiderate idiots, that doesnt include the ebikers, who seem to be roughly split between, young men doing 30 on the back wheel or people so decrepit they really shouldnt be allowed motorised transport
My anecdotage is very different from yours.
In sixty years of cycling I can recall a couple of close calls with cyclists, which at worst would have meant a fall, but so many threats to my life from motorists that I cannot ditinguish one from another in my memory. Of course, coming into collision with a car is a much more serious occurence.
A couple of times I have turned up on spec to ride with other clubs and felt quite secure riding in close formation with a bunch of strangers.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
mattheus
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by mattheus »

Mike Sales wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:57pm
jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:45pm
Il put my cycling credentials up against anybody, I've been one since 1966, I missed the world cup final as I was out on my bike, it doesn't get more dedicated than that

It's got far far worse since the 2012 related cycling boom, it almost like every idiot for miles around thought, " il get a bike"

In a non scientific survey, I'd assess that 40% of cyclists are inconsiderate idiots, and another 50% are dangerous inconsiderate idiots, that doesnt include the ebikers, who seem to be roughly split between, young men doing 30 on the back wheel or people so decrepit they really shouldnt be allowed motorised transport
My anecdotage is very different from yours.
In sixty years of cycling I can recall a couple of close calls with cyclists, which at worst would have meant a fall, but so many threats to my life from motorists that I cannot ditinguish one from another in my memory. Of course, coming into collision with a car is a much more serious occurence.
A couple of times I have turned up on spec to ride with other clubs and felt quite secure riding in close formation with a bunch of strangers.
Indeed. In addition to the close calls (I've just been on the phone to Jewson's giving details of one to their depot manager), I can report that I've been put in A&E twice due to under-cautious drivers*.

It's a shame that a cyclist-since-1966 cannot embrace the joy of the post-2012 cycling bloom in the UK. I hope he was thrilled to see thousands of new riders enjoying the quiet roads of the 2020 lockdown, but that hope may be in vain. Perhaps he can just be pleased that all those "idiots" are very unlikely to put him in hospitial, even if they coordinate their efforts and focus entirely on him.


*The identity of one of these drivers whose alleged responsibility for this hypothetical oversight has been the subject of recent discussion is not shrouded in quite such impenetrable obscurity as certain previous disclosures may have led you to assume, but, not to put too fine a point on it, the individual in question is, it may surprise you to learn, one whom your present interlocutor is in the habit of defining by means of the perpendicular pronoun.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by Oldjohnw »

mattheus wrote: 13 May 2021, 11:41am
Oldjohnw wrote: 12 May 2021, 3:50pm The closest I have ever been to being killed on any kind of road or track by any kind transport with wheels was by a cyclist as I was walking down Skiddaw .
Not sure if you are tarring cyclists in general with your brush or just downhillers.

But I'd point out that you're a statistical anomaly - just look at Gov statistics for injuries on our roads (and also RTAs that dont result in injuries); drivers are the chief problem, by a considerable majority. Your experience doesn't change that, it doesn't fix my injuries from a van-driver SMIDSY.

I am not tarring anyone or making a case.. I am not presenting evidence for a case or a theory or arguing with statistics. Simply stating a personal fact. Also following a comment that we (cyclists) kill none of them etc etc.
John
jo' bo
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by jo' bo »

Mike Sales wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:57pm
jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:45pm
Il put my cycling credentials up against anybody, I've been one since 1966, I missed the world cup final as I was out on my bike, it doesn't get more dedicated than that

It's got far far worse since the 2012 related cycling boom, it almost like every idiot for miles around thought, " il get a bike"

In a non scientific survey, I'd assess that 40% of cyclists are inconsiderate idiots, and another 50% are dangerous inconsiderate idiots, that doesnt include the ebikers, who seem to be roughly split between, young men doing 30 on the back wheel or people so decrepit they really shouldnt be allowed motorised transport
Beibg right forma

My anecdotage is very different from yours.
In sixty years of cycling I can recall a couple of close calls with cyclists, which at worst would have meant a fall, but so many threats to my life from motorists that I cannot ditinguish one from another in my memory. Of course, coming into collision with a car is a much more serious occurence.
A couple of times I have turned up on spec to ride with other clubs and felt quite secure riding in close formation with a bunch of strangers.
Being in tight formation is fine, as you all tend to be going in much the same direction at very much the same speed, going in tight formation down a shared use path or indeed the road, however means non of you can stop with out crashing into each other like they frequently do on the tours, and unlike the tours had the,addded complication of people comming the other way,

That the very essence of anti social riding unless you have closed roads and out riders

I had an unfortune number of crashes as a young man both on cycles and motorbikes, once I'd lost the bravery of youth, about 22 yo, these stopped, I've been free from being knocked off either since 1981, I just proceed in a way that doesnt infuriate others into reckless passing and just assume they havent seen me

Ive also developed quite a tolerance to close passing, anything that doesnt catch my elbow on their mirror is fine with me, it's just about the same clearance I give them when I'm filtering

I was having a conversation with my 13 yo niece about road / cycling safety, " but I had right of way" she said," yes but theirs weighs 2 tonnes " I replied, flipping give way
Last edited by jo' bo on 13 May 2021, 4:15pm, edited 3 times in total.
mattheus
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by mattheus »

Oldjohnw wrote: 13 May 2021, 3:23pm
mattheus wrote: 13 May 2021, 3:20pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 13 May 2021, 3:05pm I am not tarring anyone or making a case.. I am not presenting evidence for a case or a theory or arguing with statistics. Simply stating a personal fact. Also following a comment that we (cyclists) kill none of them etc etc.
So it was a pointless comment? You could have told it to the budgie. Or maybe a houseplant - they're supposed to benefit from our exhalations.

So comment only has value if it meets with your approval of worth. I will try to remember that.
No Sir - it was you that said your post contained no input to the debate. Unless you want to change that statement? Can you now tell us how your anecdote informs the bigger picture of dangerous cyclists vs dangerous car-drivers?

(I'm quite happy to state when I think posts have little value - it's something I've been on the other end of too. That's free speech for you! )
Tangled Metal
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by Tangled Metal »

He's inputing the thread but but the debate. Didn't think that was too subtle but perhaps people are looking you argue. Plenty of sarcastic and argumentative comments. I also suspect that some cycling forums suffer from the same sounding box problem the likes of daily mail comments do. It's OK to post what you want so long as you agree with us in the end. Or beginning.

Debate is mentioned but debates offer the chance, however slim, that opinions can be changed. I am increasingly certain that on this forum opinions are too fixed with a great many of regulars to be changed. Therefore I question whether there are really any debates on here.
mattheus
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by mattheus »

jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 4:02pm
Mike Sales wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:57pm A couple of times I have turned up on spec to ride with other clubs and felt quite secure riding in close formation with a bunch of strangers.
Being in tight formation is fine, as you all tend to be going in much the same direction at very much the same speed, going in tight formation down a shared use path or indeed the road, however means non of you can stop with out crashing into each other like they frequently do on the tours, and unlike the tours had the,addded complication of people comming the other way,

That the very essence of anti social riding unless you have closed roads and out riders
You're saying a leisure club peloton is comparable with a pro peleton? Ignoring that:
- there will be 10-20 in a club ride vs 180 of the pros
- the pros are competing; they want to be at the front, crashes are acceptable to them as a cost worth paying. Winning is their job.
- the leisure riders aren't competing; their prioroty is to get home to family safe, and go to work the next day.
- group club crashes really aren't a big thing. In 20 years of regular rides I did once see someone brought down by a daft rain-jacket manouvre (most of the following riders easily avoided impact). Never seen an issue that involved other road-users that was related to riding in a bunch. I've seen several ice-spills - again, no worse than had the riders been solo.

It's not anti-social. (In fact those rides are mainly VERY social by nature!) You need to have a serious anti-club bias to see them thus. If you made the same riders do the same miles as individuals they would likely create more risk if anything!
mattheus
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by mattheus »

Tangled Metal wrote: 13 May 2021, 4:17pm He's inputing the thread but but the debate
"NOT" the debate, I'm guessing?

Maybe we should have separate threads for that stuff. People could rant away about whatever minor incidents in their lives have irritated them, without implying it tells us anything useful about the world.

I suspect people know exactly what they are doing when they drop anecdotes into a debate. There used to be a fashion for ending statements with "Just sayin' ... " . I'm glad that's mostly died out!
jo' bo
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by jo' bo »

mattheus wrote: 13 May 2021, 4:42pm
jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 4:02pm
Mike Sales wrote: 13 May 2021, 1:57pm A couple of times I have turned up on spec to ride with other clubs and felt quite secure riding in close formation with a bunch of strangers.
Being in tight formation is fine, as you all tend to be going in much the same direction at very much the same speed, going in tight formation down a shared use path or indeed the road, however means non of you can stop with out crashing into each other like they frequently do on the tours, and unlike the tours had the,addded complication of people comming the other way,

That the very essence of anti social riding unless you have closed roads and out riders
You're saying a leisure club peloton is comparable with a pro peleton? Ignoring that:
- there will be 10-20 in a club ride vs 180 of the pros
- the pros are competing; they want to be at the front, crashes are acceptable to them as a cost worth paying. Winning is their job.
- the leisure riders aren't competing; their prioroty is to get home to family safe, and go to work the next day.
- group club crashes really aren't a big thing. In 20 years of regular rides I did once see someone brought down by a daft rain-jacket manouvre (most of the following riders easily avoided impact). Never seen an issue that involved other road-users that was related to riding in a bunch. I've seen several ice-spills - again, no worse than had the riders been solo.

It's not anti-social. (In fact those rides are mainly VERY social by nature!) You need to have a serious anti-club bias to see them thus. If you made the same riders do the same miles as individuals they would likely create more risk if anything!
.anti social people tend to congregated in groups, the fact they are socialising with other antisocial people doesnt mean that collectivly it isnt antisocial

Anywhere but a closed road even 20 in tight formation is not safe ridding, its putting other folk at risk, and,annoying the hell out of motorists, then when someone objects it's all playing the victim " oh why do they all hate us" why cant you cycle a few meters apart in line and if necessary slow,down to let people cross or get past, coz your all pretending your pros?
Vorpal
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by Vorpal »

This seems to have become anti-cycling tropes on a cycling forum :(

I have removed a number of posts that were personal, insulting, or degenerating into insults.

Please argue nicely.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
sjs
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by sjs »

mattheus wrote: 13 May 2021, 4:57pm
Tangled Metal wrote: 13 May 2021, 4:17pm He's inputing the thread but but the debate
"NOT" the debate, I'm guessing?

Maybe we should have separate threads for that stuff. People could rant away about whatever minor incidents in their lives have irritated them, without implying it tells us anything useful about the world.

I suspect people know exactly what they are doing when they drop anecdotes into a debate. There used to be a fashion for ending statements with "Just sayin' ... " . I'm glad that's mostly died out!
You disapprove of all posts that tell us nothing useful about the world? You're on the wrong forum.
slowster
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by slowster »

jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 5:40pm why cant you cycle a few meters apart in line and if necessary slow,down to let people cross or get past, coz your all pretending your pros?
An answer to your question (from Surrey Roads Police twitter):

Image

https://twitter.com/surreyroadcops/stat ... 3016366080
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661-Pete
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by 661-Pete »

Cyclists v. cyclists - or gardeners v. cyclists?

The thread title and OP indicate the latter. If so, I still don't see a link to the relevant forum (googling 'gardening forum' brings up a lot of alternatives).

If people on a gardening forum (possibly not bona fide gardeners?) are trolling cyclists, isn't it something we should know?

Link please!
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Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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jo' bo
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

Post by jo' bo »

slowster wrote: 13 May 2021, 7:06pm
jo' bo wrote: 13 May 2021, 5:40pm why cant you cycle a few meters apart in line and if necessary slow,down to let people cross or get past, coz your all pretending your pros?
An answer to your question (from Surrey Roads Police twitter):

Image

https://twitter.com/surreyroadcops/stat ... 3016366080
No, there is no law saying you cant ride two abreast, but there is no law saying you need to leave a 1.5 meter passing space either.

It seems the police can enforce one non law but not the other ?

I said a few meter apart, not two inches from the wheel in front, that counts as " tailgating "and could easily be judged as dangerous cycling. Line a stern or in a pack

But your missing the point rather, the sub text of the thread is why are cyclists so unpopular

As the answer seems to be," we are allowed to by law and sod everyone else," its really answering the question
Last edited by jo' bo on 13 May 2021, 10:21pm, edited 3 times in total.
jo' bo
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Re: Anti cycling tropes on a gardening forum!!!

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