Anyone for Gas?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Oldjohnw wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 7:42pm It’s obvious. Until China and India and Brazil have it sorted then we shouldn’t bother either.
And sitting on the other side - why should we change if they haven't
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pete75
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pete75 »

Oldjohnw wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 7:42pm It’s obvious. Until China and India and Brazil have it sorted then we shouldn’t bother either.
Until we have it sorted then China, India and Brazil shouldn't bother either.
pwa
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pwa »

Jdsk wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 9:02pm
bikes4two wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 8:48pm All this endless talk about going green, sustainably this that and the other and so on - the elephant in the room is population size don't you think?
Not particularly. And there's certainly no need to run out of food... starvation is consistently decreasing.

Jonathan
And carbon emissions per person? The more people there are, the lower the per person target will be. And the more difficult to achieve. Sustained population growth and being green don't go together.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Oldjohnw »

At least we now know why the oven ready deal isn’t quite ready.

We’ve run out of gas.
John
francovendee
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by francovendee »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oldjohnw wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 7:04am At least we now know why the oven ready deal isn’t quite ready.

We’ve run out of gas.
Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 9:02pm
Not particularly. And there's certainly no need to run out of food... starvation is consistently decreasing.

Jonathan
So far, so good. I have heard the climate is changing, though.
One cause of the increase in migration is climate change affecting harvests.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 21 Sep 2021, 9:15am, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Sales
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 9:03pm
Mike Sales wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 7:32pmUnfortunately we have probably, by resisting change, left it too late.
We are where we are. The future can be made better or worse than it would otherwise be by our decisions and actions.

Jonathan
Indeed, but the signs are not good.
Current government targets are probably insufficient and are anyway being missed.
Jdsk
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:08am
Jdsk wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 9:03pm
Mike Sales wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 7:32pmUnfortunately we have probably, by resisting change, left it too late.
We are where we are. The future can be made better or worse than it would otherwise be by our decisions and actions.
Indeed, but the signs are not good.
Current government targets are probably insufficient and are anyway being missed.
Totally agree.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:05am
Jdsk wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 9:02pm Not particularly. And there's certainly no need to run out of food... starvation is consistently decreasing.
So far, so good. I have heard the climate is changing, though.
Yes. But if we want to convince people of the harms the facts have to be right. We can produce enough food for the predicted population. And we should discuss things that have got better so that we understand why they did.

I'll come back to population...

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:12am
Mike Sales wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:05am
Jdsk wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 9:02pm Not particularly. And there's certainly no need to run out of food... starvation is consistently decreasing.
So far, so good. I have heard the climate is changing, though.
Yes. But if we want to convince people of the harms the facts have to be right. We can produce enough food for the predicted population. And we should discuss things that have got better so that we understand why they did.

I'll come back to population...

Jonathan
Yet present food production and storage and transport is dependent to a large degree on fossil fuels?
Energy and fertilizers.

I have seen venn diagrams that suggest around 50% of the food on the plate "is oil".
Jdsk
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Jdsk »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:23amI have seen venn diagrams that suggest around 50% of the food on the plate "is oil".
What is being measured to get that figure of 50%, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Jdsk »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:23am
Jdsk wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:12am
Mike Sales wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:05am So far, so good. I have heard the climate is changing, though.
Yes. But if we want to convince people of the harms the facts have to be right. We can produce enough food for the predicted population. And we should discuss things that have got better so that we understand why they did.
Yet present food production and storage and transport is dependent to a large degree on fossil fuels?
Energy and fertilizers.
And by losing the doom/ too late component that can take us into understanding what's happening and our future options. For example why does it vary so much between countries?

Image
https://www.overshootday.org/food-and-fossil-fuels/

Jonathan
Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Mike Sales »

There is a difficult balance to strike between establishing the urgency needed, and discouraging efforts to do anything constructive.
At the moment I think we are not treating emission reduction with enough urgency.
Myself, I try to act as if my tiny contribution can make a difference.
Vorpal
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Vorpal »

A number of posts have been removed & edited. Please don't insult others, either directly, or indirectly.

If you find something offensive, please report it.

Thanks.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 20 Sep 2021, 7:23pm I identify the green loons as the climate activists who seriously disrupt others lives. I think that behavior just alienates large numbers of people who might otherwise be sympathetic and thus detracts from the message they are trying to convey. And if those who criticise the message about the worst climate damaging countries in my earlier post actually read the message instead of issueing thinly veiled unwarranted insults this would be a better place.

Al
Britain is one of the worst climate damaging countries. Damage in cumulative and given the long history of coal based industry and power production in the UK we've done more damage than most.

Much of our manufacturing and associated environmental damage has been exported to countries like China making their figures look worse and ours better because we don't make so much here anymore.
Last edited by pete75 on 21 Sep 2021, 11:03am, edited 2 times in total.
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