Anyone for Gas?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
ossie
Posts: 1362
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by ossie »

Vorpal wrote: 22 Sep 2021, 7:57am
ossie wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 7:30pm
Vorpal wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 11:32am
As far as I am concerned, protesters should shut down the M25 every day. And other motorways, too. The convenience of someone's trip being disrupted is nothing compared to the looming disaster.
Until you have a relative stuck in that traffic who needs urgent medical care. There are a myriad of reasons why these lunatics shouldn't be blocking the M25.
First of all, they don't stay there long do they? The police remove them.

Secondly, emergency vehicles can use the shoulder, and have the possibility to move through congestion.

Thirdly, the M25 is often like that without protesters.
It's only in the last few days various Police forces have had to pay vast amounts of overtime trying to resource the issue so yes now they don't stay their long because the resources are there to react reasonably quickly. Initially it wasn't the case.

Some sections of the M25 don't have a shoulder, as a matter of fact hard shoulders have been removed from many 'smart motorways' (M25 has sections of 'smart motorway ') something I disagree with and the subject of a safety campaign.

Thirdly the M25 does suffer congestion at peak times but it still moves. Even accidents (unless fatal ) or breakdowns rarely involve the closure of all lanes as is the case with these protestors. Having spent a fair part of a career picking up pieces of people who chose to play with traffic on fast roads I'd rather for their sakes (and others) they found other means of protest.

As an aside, there is legislation coming in that that all rented homes have to be EPC C or less in the near future.... there are also Insulation grants available if your house qualifies. So we go back to where do we get the money for those who can't pay ?..raise taxes, that'll go down like a lead balloon or is all just plucked off the money tree ?
Last edited by ossie on 22 Sep 2021, 7:00pm, edited 2 times in total.
pwa
Posts: 14318
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pwa »

Vorpal wrote: 22 Sep 2021, 8:00am
pwa wrote: 22 Sep 2021, 5:43am I am fortunate enough not to be an M25 user, so I can view what is going on with some detachment, but I suspect they have now reached a point where the anger and resentment the protesters are generating is losing them potential support and undermining their goal. Their goal is a good one but the tactic needs to change.
The tactic needs to change? What tactic can garner attention that hasn't been tried already? Pretty much everything they do generates anger & people calling them lunatics.

It's rather like the suffragettes being told their behaviour was unbecoming.
I have never supported "protests" that target ordinary people in a fairly indiscriminate way, mostly because they are a soft target. It doesn't matter whether I share the goals or not. If someone stands in a public place with a placard and chants a few slogans, that is protest. If they block my path while I am going to work, doing my job, or visiting my mother, that is punishing me in order to create leverage on a government. And in my book that is arrogant and plain wrong. It may be peaceful in the sense that it doesn't physically harm people directly, but it is designed to hurt them by inflicting stress. If psychological harm counts in the way physical harm does, this isn't peaceful at all.

And I do want the Government to create positive incentives for people to get their homes better insulated.
Ben@Forest
Posts: 3179
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Ben@Forest »

Vorpal wrote: 22 Sep 2021, 8:00am The tactic needs to change? What tactic can garner attention that hasn't been tried already? Pretty much everything they do generates anger & people calling them lunatics.

It's rather like the suffragettes being told their behaviour was unbecoming.
The suffragettes carried out bombings in which tens of people (especially postmen handling letter bombs) were seriously injured. Wikipedia claims 5 people were killed during their bombing and arson campaign, though I can't find that substantiated elsewhere.

Most people also don't seem to distinguish between the suffragists who campaigned peacefully and the suffragettes who did not always do so. The suffragettes also defaced works of art (see the Rokeby Venus). The suffragettes didn't just chain themselves to railings or throw themselves under horses - if you were a badly burned postman you'd consider their behaviour was unbecoming.
Oldjohnw
Posts: 7704
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Oldjohnw »

If it wasn’t for the Manchester (Strangeways) prison riots of the 1990s (which one cannot endorse) we would still have wholesale slopping out. The authorities, neither prison nor political, had any intention of making improvements.

There are paradoxes in life.
John
pwa
Posts: 14318
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pwa »

If some suffragettes caused injury to postmen, that was wrong. It doesn't matter that their cause was right and noble, which it was. The tactic was an injustice. The ends don't justify the means. Lots of bad things have happened because some people think the ends justify the means. Obstructing a motorway knowing that some people will be stuck in stationary traffic for hours is stealing a little bit of lots of lives. You might imagine that some of those people stuck in the traffic are justifiable targets because they are doing unnecessary car journeys, but others will be tradespeople trying to get through their day's work, or delivery people delivering bicycle bits to cyclists who prefer to have their stuff brought to them. Some will be care home staff sent by an agency to cover a vacancy, or plasterers on their way to collect materials. All deprived of an hour or two of their lives by some folk who think that is a good way to make a point. To me it seems arrogant and it does not make me keen to rally to their cause, even though I want some of the things they want.

The most effective pressure for improvements to insulation this winter is likely to come from gas price rises. All of us are going to be exploring ways in which we can save money on fuel. I've done a lot of insulating on our house since we moved in over twenty years ago, but I might look at it again.
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 9725
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by al_yrpal »

I recently met a couple who had self built a 3500 square foot impressive mock Georgian House. It has solar panels massive insulation, triple glazed sash windows, underfloor heating in all rooms and is heated by bottled gas and coal. They spend only £60 per annum on the gas and buy a ton of coal for about £100 because they like a fire.
But, there is a flaw...summer temperatures in the bedrooms makes them unbearable. This is despite massive loft wall and floor insulation. Its due to solar gains via the huge sashes. They are now talking about installing air conditioning upstairs.
In French houses the remedy is simple - shutters.
I have another friend locally who has just bought a brand new eco house, he has the same problem but less so because the windows are tiny. Insulating buildings isnt so simple.

In our genuine Georgian house we have huge single glazed sashes. We also have insulating blinds light coloured on the outside dark coloured on the inside with ribbed air pockets. There are massive curtains too. With the sashes open at the top or the bottom and the blinds intelligently deployed so far its been easy to regulate the temperature of the rooms they serve, but we are still learning.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...
francovendee
Posts: 2082
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by francovendee »

The French and other nations realise the value of having shutters, not just to keep the sun out but to keep the heat in.
Ours were rotten and I had thought of just removing them until entering a neighbours home in August. His house was cool but ours wasn't. I've now got them on all the windows.
They won't work with 'English' style windows though as windows here open inwards not outwards.
francovendee
Posts: 2082
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by francovendee »

With the high gas price causing problems should the government now increase the amount stored in reserves?
The UK has 3 days supply and most EU countries have far more (France has 90 days).
There is a plan to wean ourselves off gas usage so would the billions needed be a waste?
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4342
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Plenty of "gas" from Johnson this morning.
He wants to address the global issues of "coal, cars, cash and trees".
Though "cash", unless it's bitcoin or some such, escapes me.
Yawn!

And he takes the opportunity to promote his capitalist agenda into the areas of "green". Saying the two will dovetail or some other such demonstrable double think.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58657887

This from man who has just announced, to small fanfare, the resumption of methane producing ruminant meat exports ACROSS THE ATLANTIC and further across and into the USA.

While removing, in the last years, a huge market available a few miles away, and accessible by electric train.

The Sheep!
Arguably the animal most responsible for woodland destruction and reduction in plant diversity of the whole domestic UK animal "palette".
Especially in over subsidized conditions.

This Govt, really get my goat!
Oldjohnw
Posts: 7704
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Oldjohnw »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 8:47am Plenty of "gas" from Johnson this morning.
He wants to address the global issues of "coal, cars, cash and trees".
Though "cash", unless it's bitcoin or some such, escapes me.
Yawn!

And he takes the opportunity to promote his capitalist agenda into the areas of "green". Saying the two will dovetail or some other such demonstrable double think.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58657887

This from man who has just announced, to small fanfare, the resumption of methane producing ruminant meat exports ACROSS THE ATLANTIC and further across and into the USA.

While removing, in the last years, a huge market available a few miles away, and accessible by electric train.

The Sheep!
Arguably the animal most responsible for woodland destruction and reduction in plant diversity of the whole domestic UK animal "palette".
Especially in over subsidized conditions.

This Govt, really get my goat!
Prenez un grip!
John
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 9725
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by al_yrpal »

francovendee wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 8:22am The French and other nations realise the value of having shutters, not just to keep the sun out but to keep the heat in.
Ours were rotten and I had thought of just removing them until entering a neighbours home in August. His house was cool but ours wasn't. I've now got them on all the windows.
They won't work with 'English' style windows though as windows here open inwards not outwards.
Sashes slide, so no problem...

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4342
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Oldjohnw wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 9:06am

Prenez un grip!
:D
Pourquoi? Et Non!
Jdsk
Posts: 11162
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 8:27am With the high gas price causing problems should the government now increase the amount stored in reserves?
The UK has 3 days supply and most EU countries have far more (France has 90 days).
There is a plan to wean ourselves off gas usage so would the billions needed be a waste?
I think of those as two different issues.

We need to switch to renewables and reduced consumption as quickly as possible. Timescale of 5y, 10y.

But we need secure supply at all times. Timescale of seconds, minutes, hours and days. But planning timescale of months and years.

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4342
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 10:20am
We need to switch to renewables and reduced consumption as quickly as possible. Timescale of 5y, 10y.

>snip<

Jonathan
But there are those of us that have said that for décades.
And watched while various Govts have done just the opposite.
In those decades not only has traffic increased but vehicle are for the most part ever larger and more powerful.
And the bulk of (UK) railways remain unelectrified. There was something that should have been done while copper was plentiful and cheaper. Terrible decision making.

So while your sentiment is one I hear very often, the reality is that it is,for the most part, unobtainable in the short term. IMV.
And remains nothing but wasted breath.

A sort of cursory nod to a utopian dream but without any grounding in reality.

See Johnson's "gassing off" above.
Psamathe
Posts: 13551
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Psamathe »

So us taxpayers are now paying some US company millions to create CO2 because the price of gas has risen so they are no longer profitable. Is this how the Conservative much acclaimed "Free Market" works so well? If it is how thes markets work I think the word "work" is not appropriate.

Ian
Post Reply