Anyone for Gas?

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al_yrpal
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by al_yrpal »

Worlds biggest sources of greenhouse gases
Worlds biggest sources of greenhouse gases
Never mind emmisions per person, these countries are the top 20 with America with a fraction of the population of China punching above its weight. If we want to save the planet the people to convince are in these places. Its no surprise that the top polluters are the places where most stuff is manufactured using power derived substantially from coal. Until recently according to a Chinese friend I met on my visit there in 1984 the Chinese were commisioning one new coal fired station a week.
We need to be very clever here because obviously China America and India would collapse if manufacturing was severely curtailed.
Pit closures were due to industrial troubles and the dash for gas, a cleaner source of heat and power.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...
pete75
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pete75 »

al_yrpal wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 5:13pm co2-emissions-per-country-chart.jpg

Never mind emmisions per person, these countries are the top 20 with America with a fraction of the population of China punching above its weight. If we want to save the planet the people to convince are in these places. Its no surprise that the top polluters are the places where most stuff is manufactured using power derived substantially from coal. Until recently according to a Chinese friend I met on my visit there in 1984 the Chinese were commisioning one new coal fired station a week.
We need to be very clever here because obviously China America and India would collapse if manufacturing was severely curtailed.
Pit closures were due to industrial troubles and the dash for gas, a cleaner source of heat and power.

Al
It's people that produce pollution not countries.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

And let's not forget that most of the emissions we allocate to china are merely exported emissions from here.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
slowster
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by slowster »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 5:33pm And let's not forget that most of the emissions we allocate to china are merely exported emissions from here.
Indeed, but the figures in the chart above already take that into account, i.e. they are the Consumption Based emissions for those countries, not the Production based emissions.
consumption-co2-per-capita.png
reohn2
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by reohn2 »

Pete75
It's no use,there's none so blind as them that will not see! :?
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reohn2
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 5:13pm co2-emissions-per-country-chart.jpg

Never mind emmisions per person, these countries are the top 20 with America with a fraction of the population of China punching above its weight. If we want to save the planet the people to convince are in these places. Its no surprise that the top polluters are the places where most stuff is manufactured using power derived substantially from coal. Until recently according to a Chinese friend I met on my visit there in 1984 the Chinese were commisioning one new coal fired station a week.
We need to be very clever here because obviously China America and India would collapse if manufacturing was severely curtailed.
Pit closures were due to industrial troubles and the dash for gas, a cleaner source of heat and power.

Al


There were no industrial troubles in the pits between 1974 and 1984 until Thatcher decided to shut pits wholesale and import cheaper inferior coal from as far away as Australia,Brazil an Poland,Australian coal was open cast very low grade,Brazilian coal,also low grade and mined by children some as young as 10years,Polish coal though good quality was mined where safety standards where very poor indeed.
This went on for over a decade under Thatcher and no better under Blair,there were and still are vast reserves of top quality deep mined coal under our feet which should clearly have been mined first whilst other more greener means of energy production was brought on stream,but as ever under the Tories domination was and still is at the top of their agenda.

May I also remind you that North Sea oil and gas were also used along with selling off social housing cheap to 'buy' votes under Thatcher and continued with Blair(who is only a Tory in a red tie and worse still a war criminal)

The fact is that along with every other nation on the planet,but for a few,blew it and sacrificed our future generations on the alter of a wreckless brand of capitalism that doesn't give a damn,I saw it then and I see it now.



It IS about emissions per capita,where China although still building coalfired powerstations to meet demand for energy are world leader in solar,wind and hydro electicity.

As per Pete75's post the biggest polluters are the biggest consumers,which as I stated in a previous post,is the west.
If the west don't use it China won't make it!
Last edited by reohn2 on 23 Sep 2021, 8:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
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francovendee
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by francovendee »

al_yrpal wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 12:39pm
francovendee wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 11:55am
al_yrpal wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 9:12am

Sashes slide, so no problem...

Al
Aren't most homes casement windows?
Correct, never had sashes before. They are wonderful for creating ventilation

Al
We them all the time I was at home with my parents. I hope the new ones are much improved? The ones I remember were draughty, rattly dangerous things. We had one window break when the sash cords broke. I became quite handy at replacing broken sash cords!
rjb
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Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by rjb »

francovendee wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 7:20pm
al_yrpal wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 12:39pm
francovendee wrote: 23 Sep 2021, 11:55am
Aren't most homes casement windows?
Correct, never had sashes before. They are wonderful for creating ventilation

Al
We them all the time I was at home with my parents. I hope the new ones are much improved? The ones I remember were draughty, rattly dangerous things. We had one window break when the sash cords broke. I became quite handy at replacing broken sash cords!
People used to insert rubber wedges into the sash windows to stop them rattling. The less well off used clothes pegs, my mum and dad used cardboard from the fag packets. :(
When the cords broke you would prop them up with a wedged stick. :roll:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D
colin54
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by colin54 »

I just caught the last half of this Radio 4 programme; The Briefing Room, 'The U.K's Energy Crisis'.
Half hour programme, with experts in the field being interviewed and an overview of the issues, I found it interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zv4b
Nu-Fogey.
Jdsk
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Jdsk »

It's often excellent. Thanks for the heads-up.

Jonathan
pwa
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pwa »

I had thought that this coming winter I might burn a bit less wood and rely more on gas central heating, but that now looks like being the other way round. I will be having a word with my wood supplier later to see if he has stocks sufficient to meet our needs.

If we are all getting rid of our ICE cars and replacing them with electric ones in a decade or so, having our electricity coming from gas seems a little unwise in the light of recent events, quite apart from greenhouse gas concerns. And a decade isn't much time to reconfigure our electricity supply.

I have that old song going around in my head, There may be trouble ahead...............
Psamathe
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Psamathe »

pwa wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 7:48am I had thought that this coming winter I might burn a bit less wood and rely more on gas central heating, but that now looks like being the other way round. I will be having a word with my wood supplier later to see if he has stocks sufficient to meet our needs.
...
Except
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/16/home-wood-burning-biggest-cause-particle-pollution-fires wrote:Wood burning at home now biggest cause of UK particle pollution
Domestic wood burning has become the single biggest source of small particle air pollution in the UK, producing three times more than road traffic, government data shows.
or
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/07/fireplaces-and-stoves-are-bigger-polluters-than-traffic wrote:Fireplaces and stoves are bigger polluters than traffic
Fireplaces and stoves are now the largest single source of primary particle pollution in the UK, greater than traffic and industry.
or
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds wrote:Wood burners triple harmful indoor air pollution, study finds
Wood burners triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, scientists have warned, and they advise people not to use them around elderly people or children.

The tiny particles “flood” into the room when the burner doors are opened for refuelling, their study showed.
etc., etc.

Ian
pwa
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 10:52am
pwa wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 7:48am I had thought that this coming winter I might burn a bit less wood and rely more on gas central heating, but that now looks like being the other way round. I will be having a word with my wood supplier later to see if he has stocks sufficient to meet our needs.
...
Except
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/16/home-wood-burning-biggest-cause-particle-pollution-fires wrote:Wood burning at home now biggest cause of UK particle pollution
Domestic wood burning has become the single biggest source of small particle air pollution in the UK, producing three times more than road traffic, government data shows.
or
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/07/fireplaces-and-stoves-are-bigger-polluters-than-traffic wrote:Fireplaces and stoves are bigger polluters than traffic
Fireplaces and stoves are now the largest single source of primary particle pollution in the UK, greater than traffic and industry.
or
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds wrote:Wood burners triple harmful indoor air pollution, study finds
Wood burners triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, scientists have warned, and they advise people not to use them around elderly people or children.

The tiny particles “flood” into the room when the burner doors are opened for refuelling, their study showed.
etc., etc.

Ian
I live in an area of low density housing so the air quality locally is very good. I haven't noticed any of the wood burning homes nearby emitting a lot of smoke so I think it likely they are all burning dry wood in an efficient way. We don't get a smell of wood burning as we walk around the village either, which must indicate something good. If I lived in a town or city I'd not be burning wood. And as for pollution in our own home, I love a fire so much that I don't really care.

Anyway, the man has now been spoken to and 6 cubic metres of beautifully dry wood are heading our way next week, to add to a couple of cubic metres already in the garage. £180 which will save us spending as much on gas for the central heating. The chimney was swept a couple of weeks back and the bloke who did it said it wasn't too dirty so we must have been burning fairly efficiently last winter.
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by Psamathe »

pwa wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 11:04am
Psamathe wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 10:52am
pwa wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 7:48am I had thought that this coming winter I might burn a bit less wood and rely more on gas central heating, but that now looks like being the other way round. I will be having a word with my wood supplier later to see if he has stocks sufficient to meet our needs.
...
Except
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/16/home-wood-burning-biggest-cause-particle-pollution-fires wrote:Wood burning at home now biggest cause of UK particle pollution
Domestic wood burning has become the single biggest source of small particle air pollution in the UK, producing three times more than road traffic, government data shows.
or
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/07/fireplaces-and-stoves-are-bigger-polluters-than-traffic wrote:Fireplaces and stoves are bigger polluters than traffic
Fireplaces and stoves are now the largest single source of primary particle pollution in the UK, greater than traffic and industry.
or
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds wrote:Wood burners triple harmful indoor air pollution, study finds
Wood burners triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, scientists have warned, and they advise people not to use them around elderly people or children.

The tiny particles “flood” into the room when the burner doors are opened for refuelling, their study showed.
etc., etc.

Ian
I live in an area of low density housing so the air quality locally is very good. I haven't noticed any of the wood burning homes nearby emitting a lot of smoke so I think it likely they are all burning dry wood in an efficient way. We don't get a smell of wood burning as we walk around the village either, which must indicate something good. If I lived in a town or city I'd not be burning wood. And as for pollution in our own home, I love a fire so much that I don't really care.

Anyway, the man has now been spoken to and 6 cubic metres of beautifully dry wood are heading our way next week, to add to a couple of cubic metres already in the garage. £180 which will save us spending as much on gas for the central heating. The chimney was swept a couple of weeks back and the bloke who did it said it wasn't too dirty so we must have been burning fairly efficiently last winter.
From those articles e.g.
The wood burners used were all models certified by the government as “smoke exempt appliances”, meaning they produce less smoke.
The articles also state the seasoned vs we wood and the majority were using properly seasoned wood (many burning wood use the "but I'm burning dry wood" excuse but the research shows you still get loads of particles indoors and in other people's houses).

There is far more to the health impacts of wood burning than just smell.

Ian
pwa
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Re: Anyone for Gas?

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 11:14am
...........There is far more to the health impacts of wood burning than just smell.

Ian
Obviously. But the absence of smell, the lack of visible smoke around the village and (in our case) the absence of a build up of deposits in the flue, are indicators of reasonably efficient combustion. And as far as I am aware, efficient combustion means lower pollution generally.

As I have said many times before, I think wood burning in high density housing areas (basically any urban area) is probably a bad idea. But in a village it works fine so long as individuals are burning dry wood and not restricting the air supply too much.

A big advantage of wood burning in a rural location like ours is that when, occasionally, the electricity supply fails, we can still have heating. Even gas and oil central heating fails when the leccy goes off, but wood is there to burn any time you want it. That has been really useful on a few occasions.
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