Electric everything.

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pete75 wrote: 14 Sep 2021, 10:09am
[XAP]Bob wrote: 13 Sep 2021, 11:39pm
pete75 wrote: 12 Sep 2021, 10:44pm

At the moment if you're doing long journeys a plug in diesel hybrid may be a better choice than pure electric. We've an E300de on order, arriving in a couple of weeks. Interesting to see what it'll be like. Electric range is about 33 miles , enough for the daily commute it'll be used for and charge time about 5 hours from an ordinary 13amp socket. It'll be replaced in a couple of years time when we may go fully electric. By then there'll be more choice of decent electric cars and much better infrastructure.
Nah, only need it a few days a year - why lug about (and service) a diesel for that?

I’d far rather AlAir batteries or similar for the rare journeys
Well it's fine for you if you rarely do long journeys. We do them quite often. How does high speed cruising affect battery range?
Not too badly, I can get pretty close to 4m/kWh cruising at motorway speeds - and I’m in a particularly aerodynamically inefficient vehicle.
In winter, with a headwind, uphill both ways, then it drops a bit but I don’t think I’ve seen less than 3.5 over any significant journey.

Something like the MG5, I managed to trivially get over 5m/kWh on shorter A road journeys (it was a courtesy car so didn’t have it long) - my guess is that that efficiency boost would translate to the motorway as well. The MG5 LR lists 250miles wltp, so I’d expect 220-230 ish real world.


The reason I’d go for AlAir is that they become the replacement for the ICE range extender, but you can drop a couple in and still be completely electric, no complicated secondary drive system to shoe in.
They’d not be high power batteries, but if they can provide a decent base load then the LiIon can smooth that out.

Round trip efficiency is pretty poor, still better than ICE, a bit worse then hydrogen- but much simpler to store.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Tailbacks out of a few petrol stations today…

Oh well, nothing like a bit of range anxiety is there :lol:
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
Posts: 11223
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 11:52am Tailbacks out of a few petrol stations today…

Oh well, nothing like a bit of range anxiety is there
That hadn't even occurred to me!

: - )

Jonathan

PS: A daughter turned up with her ID.3 yesterday. Started getting our minds round charging rates and the miles/energy factor: thanks for your illuminating observations on that.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Jdsk wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 12:02pm PS: A daughter turned up with her ID.3 yesterday. Started getting our minds round charging rates and the miles/energy factor: thanks for your illuminating observations on that.
's OK - glad they've helped someone wrap their heads around it ;)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 431
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Hellhound »

The range of current EVs is miles off being anywhere near viable.Or should I say years off.Until they can compete they will always be a non starter.I can do easily do 500 miles on a full tank and I'm 'heavy footed'.It takes me less than 5 mins to go from empty to full at a fuel station.When EVs can do this I might look at one.I doubt it will happen anytime soon so I'll be sticking to Diesel.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

So how often do you do more than 200 miles in a day?

As a note my EV goes from empty to full in about ten seconds of my time, and I don't have to go anywhere special to do that.


Besides petrol will never catch on, my horse runs on oats and is much cheaper.
Last edited by [XAP]Bob on 24 Sep 2021, 5:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Elizabeth_S
Posts: 254
Joined: 27 May 2013, 3:18pm
Location: somewhere

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Elizabeth_S »

There was a very interesting article on lithium batteries in Chemistry World in July:
https://www.chemistryworld.com/features ... 38.article
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Interesting - particularly in that lithium seems to be well on the way to better extraction methods.

Cobalt is already not used in many batteries - Tesla completely abandoned it in 2020 IIRC

And second life and eventual recycling will be a viable business once we get some end of life battery packs (and we are starting to see them).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 431
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Hellhound »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 4:02pm So how often do you do more than 200 miles in a day?
As a note my EV goes from empty to full in about ten seconds of my time, and I don't have to go anywhere special to do that.
Quite often as it happens :wink: When I do I want to be able to do it without having to recharge. :roll:
So which electric car can you fully charge in 10 seconds?
Jdsk
Posts: 11223
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Jdsk »

Hellhound wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 6:39pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 4:02pm So how often do you do more than 200 miles in a day?
As a note my EV goes from empty to full in about ten seconds of my time, and I don't have to go anywhere special to do that.
Quite often as it happens. When I do I want to be able to do it without having to recharge.
So which electric car can you fully charge in 10 seconds?
I suspect that's how long it takes to plug it in at home...

Jonathan
Stevek76
Posts: 1143
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Stevek76 »

I can't fully charge my relatively small 35L petrol tank in 10s either.


Re viability of EVs (as much as I frequently bridle at them being misused as an excuse to avoid tackling wider transport car dependency issues), surrey road cops have one as an unmarked patrol vehicle and seem to find it quite viable:

https://twitter.com/SurreyRoadCops/stat ... 5993465858
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Hellhound wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 6:39pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 4:02pm So how often do you do more than 200 miles in a day?
As a note my EV goes from empty to full in about ten seconds of my time, and I don't have to go anywhere special to do that.
Quite often as it happens :wink: When I do I want to be able to do it without having to recharge. :roll:
So which electric car can you fully charge in 10 seconds?
Really? Most people who think that find that they don’t do nearly as many days like that as they think.
And driving several hundred miles is also the point at which you *do* want to take a proper break - road safety isn’t enhanced by people (and I used to be among them) who think nothing of driving for ten to fourteen hours straight.


And I said ten seconds of *my* time, not ten seconds to charge it. You have to babysit a pump for five minutes, I plug in as I go into my house and it’s done - full battery any morning I want.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 17732
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Electric everything.

Post by mjr »

Why must every electrification topic turn into a rehash of the electric vehicles one? I'd really like to hear more from people with electric heating or generation.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 18880
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric everything.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Because I couldn’t see the electric car one and the gas set reminded me of the queues this morning.

I have some experience of solar generation, the ASHP has only recently been enstalled though, so don’t know much about that
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 431
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: Electric everything.

Post by Hellhound »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 9:19pm
Hellhound wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 6:39pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 24 Sep 2021, 4:02pm So how often do you do more than 200 miles in a day?
As a note my EV goes from empty to full in about ten seconds of my time, and I don't have to go anywhere special to do that.
Quite often as it happens :wink: When I do I want to be able to do it without having to recharge. :roll:
So which electric car can you fully charge in 10 seconds?
Really? Most people who think that find that they don’t do nearly as many days like that as they think.
And driving several hundred miles is also the point at which you *do* want to take a proper break - road safety isn’t enhanced by people (and I used to be among them) who think nothing of driving for ten to fourteen hours straight.


And I said ten seconds of *my* time, not ten seconds to charge it. You have to babysit a pump for five minutes, I plug in as I go into my house and it’s done - full battery any morning I want.
Yes but when I've baby sat a pump for 5 mins I'm in my car and away again.If I'm driving to Cornwall or the NW Highlands I want to do it in the shortest time possible(as I do with any journey) having to stop and charge a car doesn't allow this.Driving to France/Spain/Italy would be a nightmare :roll:
Until the range of these cars at least doubles and the charge times are much quicker then they're just a non starter for me.
I wonder does higher speed driving drain the battery quicker?Are the distances quoted for town or motorway driving?
Post Reply