Bread making

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Flinders
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Re: Bread making

Post by Flinders »

DaveP wrote:This might be of interest: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/salt.html
I always thought salt was just for taste, but apparently not. At any rate, if you have stumbled across a variation that works for you then stick with it!

Thanks for the link, it's interesting.

I have looked up salt in my books, and they all assume it goes in before the bulk fermentation stage. I don't use a lot of salt, as it happens.

I'm just wondering in the light of everything whether I may actually be using too much yeast, and that's why the salt thing is happening. I may experiment. It was only when I read Elizabeth David's book English Bread and Yeast Cookery years ago that I found out how much less dried yeast you need than fresh yeast - about half. Up to then, my bread was terrible, I just hadn't realised I was using too much yeast, and so many books don't tell you. They say 'if your bread doesn't rise it can be:
'too much yeast, or too little yeast, too much salt, or too little salt'.
That's as helpful as a chocolate teapot. :evil:

And I use Fermipan dried yeast now- re-reading David I find that means I should pretty much halve it again. I'm not sure I was using Fermipan when I last read that bit of David, so I will have to go back and check I'm not using too much.

BTW, I did enjoy that programme on Victorian bread making that was on recently.....
drliamski
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Re: Bread making

Post by drliamski »

Salt slows both the yeast and sourdough
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Bread making

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Just a thought regarding yeast and perhaps of interest here.
A large local Tescos (Bangor N Wales) with its own bakery, will sell fresh commercial yeast to anyone in a plastic bag.
A great lump , around 3 oz ( i guess) for a penny. It's a major bargain and the bread rises well.
I always feel chuffed at buying something so useful for a penny. :D Nothing just nothing is a penny anymore!
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661-Pete
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Re: Bread making

Post by 661-Pete »

DaveP wrote:This might be of interest: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/salt.html
I always thought salt was just for taste, but apparently not. At any rate, if you have stumbled across a variation that works for you then stick with it!

Thanks for the link - very interesting - though I don't agree with the "1.8% to 2%" formula for salt, stated therein. We use one rounded teaspoon (about 10g - I've just checked this) of salt per 1Kg of flour: that's 1%. 1.8 to 2% would be too salty for our tastes.

As far as our cultivated yeast - and soda - breads are concerned, I think we've got the formula just about right and the bread rises perfectly for us, so I don't think there's any need to experiment: as the saying goes, if it ain't broke..... But with my sourdough there's certainly room to try a few things out.

How much yeast to use? Well, we don't have a source of fresh baker's yeast, unlike the lucky contributor from Bangor, so we use bog-standard supermarket dried yeast. This usually comes in 7g sachets. One sachet per 1Kg flour - but if baking with less than 1Kg, use a whole sachet.
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Vorpal
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Re: Bread making

Post by Vorpal »

For cultivated yeast, I quite like Dove's Farm 'quick yeast', which I buy in bags of 125 g or so (I can check later how much it is) and store in the refrigerator. I usually use about 5 parts yeast to 4 parts salt. Flour here is naturally a little a stronger than flour in the UK, so there isn't 'strong' flour sold just for breadmaking. I found that I need a little more yeast, (and therefore a little more salt to balance it) than I did in the UK.

I end up with about 10 g yeast and 7 or 8 g salt for a 500 g loaf of bread in the breadmaker. For hand made bread & overnight rising, I use about 7 or 8 g yeast and 5 g salt.

I once had sourdough starter, but I haven't had in years. Maybe I will do it again... :D
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Flinders
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Re: Bread making

Post by Flinders »

Fermipan yeast comes in 500g, vacpacked @ £4.59 (from the Watermill at Little Salkeld where I get most of my flour). I just store it in it's own pack in a cool larder with one of those plastic clips for cereal packets to keep it shut, no need to be in the fridge.
I currently use about 0.7oz of it (20g) for 3 lbs 2 oz (about 1.4 kg) of flour.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Bread making

Post by PDQ Mobile »

661-Pete wrote:How much yeast to use? Well, we don't have a source of fresh baker's yeast, unlike the lucky contributor from Bangor, so we use bog-standard supermarket dried yeast. This usually comes in 7g sachets. One sachet per 1Kg flour - but if baking with less than 1Kg, use a whole sachet.


As I understood it any Tesco's with it's own bakery will do this. One needs to ask at the counter though.
Flinders
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Re: Bread making

Post by Flinders »

PDQ Mobile wrote:
661-Pete wrote:How much yeast to use? Well, we don't have a source of fresh baker's yeast, unlike the lucky contributor from Bangor, so we use bog-standard supermarket dried yeast. This usually comes in 7g sachets. One sachet per 1Kg flour - but if baking with less than 1Kg, use a whole sachet.


As I understood it any Tesco's with it's own bakery will do this. One needs to ask at the counter though.


I gather it's traditional for bakers to give away yeast on requst, as they end up with more than they need. I have no idea who else might do it, though, as I find the dried more convenient.
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661-Pete
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Re: Bread making

Post by 661-Pete »

This is my latest sourdough - 50:50 wholemeal and white. Had some trouble shaping the loaves but it's risen reasonably well, rather coarse texture but it'll do. Tastes good!
Sourdough.jpg
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al_yrpal
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Re: Bread making

Post by al_yrpal »

That looks excellent

Al
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LollyKat
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Re: Bread making

Post by LollyKat »

Sourdough forums are full of the question, "How can I get achieve a holey texture?" :lol: :lol: I don't know if it is just fashion but apparently sourdough is 'supposed' to look like that - chapeau!

Please post your recipe when you have a moment.
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661-Pete
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Re: Bread making

Post by 661-Pete »

Thanks. I got lucky, I think. :)

Recipe?! Yes, that's the point, I can post my method but I don't guarantee success. What worked for me may not work for you: indeed, as I posted above, I had several failures before coming up with this.

It's a long-drawn-out process. Making the starter takes about a week.

Anyway, I start with rye flour (organic, stoneground) and bottled spring water ("still", of course, any cheapo supermarket brand will do). I keep the starter in a 500ml kilner jar which will comfortably hold about 300ml of starter. Start with 25g flour and 50ml water, mix well, cover jar with clingfilm (do not close the lid) and store in warm kitchen for 24 hours.

Next day, add another 25g flour and 50ml water, stir in, cover and leave for another 24 hours.

Next day, add 50g flour and 100ml water, stir in, cover and leave for another 24 hours.

You can see where this is leading! If you keep on doubling every day, after a few weeks you'll have used up the entire world's stock of flour plus all its fresh water. Therefore, on the next day, and subsequent days, you have to pour away half your starter and then add another 50g flour and 100ml water. This is a bit wasteful but there is no alternative.

After about six or seven days the starter should be fizzing nicely. I haven't got a picture of mine, but it should look like this:
Image
If it doesn't, you probably have a dud. Try a different flour maybe, and start over.

Once the starter is nicely working, you can seal the lid (n.b. don't use a screwtop jar, it may explode) and put it in the fridge. It will only need 'feeding' every week or so. It will separate out into a clear, yellowish brown layer on top and a murky layer underneath, and smell quite foul, but this is quite normal.

When you want to make bread, if using your starter out of the fridge, feed it the day before: stir thoroughly, pour away about 150ml, then add 100ml bottled still water and 50g rye flour and stir in. Do this in the morning, leave the jar open but cover with clingfilm, leave in warm kitchen for 12 hours.

Next step is making the bread itself. I now switch to wheat flour: 50% strong wholemeal and 50% strong white for the latest attempt 100% strong wholemeal currently, though you can experiment here.

Then make a pre-dough later that evening. Stir the starter and mix 50ml with 200g flour and 100ml lukewarm water (tap water ok now) in a bowl, knead gently, cover with clingfilm and leave in a warm place overnight. Next day, mix 900g flour, ½ tsp caraway seeds (optional), 30 ml cooking oil, 600ml lukewarm water, and the prepared pre-dough, start kneading and when the dough starts to form sprinkle on 1½ to 2 tsp salt. Knead well for 10 minutes, return to bowl, cover and leave in warm place to rise for about 3-7 hours (n.b. this is much longer than you would allow for yeast bread, and depends on the 'vigour' of your starter.). The dough should at least double in size: in our 28cm bowl it almost reaches the top of the bowl. Then take it out and knead for a further 1 minute, form into two loaves and place on floured baking sheets. Cover and leave to prove for another 60-90 minutes or so.

Heat oven to 200C. Just before putting loaves in oven, turn them upside-down (this seems to help against forming large cavities under the crust) and re-form into loaves - the dough will probably have spread out a lot. Bake for 30 minutes. Turn out on wire rack to cool. Enjoy.

[edit] recipe updated 23/03/2020 to match my current recipe.
Last edited by 661-Pete on 23 Mar 2020, 11:57am, edited 2 times in total.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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al_yrpal
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Re: Bread making

Post by al_yrpal »

I find Paul Hollywoods method works well…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/class ... ough_21029

And this starter worked for me…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/sourd ... with_45126

I too like the 50 50 wholemeal / strong white loaf.

I make the dough late afternoon, pop it ito the airing cupboard and knock it back at bedtime. Next morning I bake it.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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DaveP
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Re: Bread making

Post by DaveP »

Okay - I'm going to have a crack at this homebrewed stuff. Just need to get some grapes...
But thinking ahead, do you have any opinions about the practicality of baking sourdough in bread tins rather than as a hand formed loaf?
I admire traditionally shaped loaves as much as the next guy, but using tins allows me to bake two sizeable loaves at the same time, which is handy.
When I have tried two bloomer shapes they usually end up conjoined ... :oops:
Trying to retain enough fitness to grow old disgracefully... That hasn't changed!
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al_yrpal
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Re: Bread making

Post by al_yrpal »

Havent tried tins but why not just try it?

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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