Bread making

[DaveP]

Forgive me for slightly altering your quote so as to clarify its meaning.

Punctuation. Always punctuation...
Thankyou!

[661-Pete]

Thankyou!

No - thank YOU for taking it without any complaint....

[661-Pete]

Just an update. My current sourdough starter culture is still going fine - I can't recall whether it's the same one I started over two years ago (as mentioned at the start of this thread) or whether I had to renew it in the interim, but certainly the present batch is well over a year old.

It needs 'feeding' (i.e. pouring half away, and topping up with fresh rye flour and water) about once a fortnight. It 'fizzes' nicely and vigorously after feeding, and the bread dough I make from it typically doubles or even trebles in volume on first rising (this takes about four hours). And the final result is nice and airy but without the unsightly large voids below the crust. I'm pleased. How long will it last, I wonder?

I read a news story the other day about someone's starter which was over 100 years old, and was one of a collection for a sort of 'museum' which some bloke in Belgium has set up. Should I contribute, I wonder? Or should I wait 100 years and then contribute?

[mercalia]

I have a Panasonic bread machine. It does the job well produces a brick loaf that is not heavy etc. I am talking here just a standard white loaf, nothing difficult. I have more or less stopped using it as I dont like the taste of the bread. I measure the quick yeast out exactly so that shouldnt be the problem. I hesitate to says its a easty flavour as I dont know what that would be. I tend to buy Lidls tiger loaves which taste fine. so how do they do it , to get it to taste nice? I just want a nice tasting stadard white loaf.

[LollyKat]

I first made my starter in 2002 and it is still going strong. We make all our own bread, most of it sourdough; only the wholewheat bread is with yeast as we don't like the slightly bitter taste the sourdough version has. Otherwise I make a slightly spiced fruit loaf, 50-50 white / wholemeal, based on a hot cross bun recipe; two kinds of rye bread (whole rye and whole wheat or whole rye and white); a pain de compagne which is mainly white with just a little wholewheat and rye; and savoury flat breads.

These last are dead easy - just add some flour, a pinch of salt and some pounded coriander and cumin seeds, and a few chilli flakes to some starter make a soft dough*. If you have time leave for an hour or so but you can cook them straight away. Roll out thinly and cook on the hob in a fairly hot heavy frying pan for 2-3 minutes each side.The recipe is not precise because you adapt it as required. As a guide, I find that c.220ml starter plus flour yields 2 x 7-8 inch flatbreads. I cook them dry - to test the heat sprinkle a little flour on the pan and if it takes about 20 seconds to brown, the pan is ready. My starter is white and I add wholewheat to make the dough.

As for the old starter - have you come across Carl Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail Starter? Quite a thought!

[LollyKat]

I have a Panasonic bread machine. It does the job well produces a brick loaf that is not heavy etc. I am talking here just a standard white loaf, nothing difficult. I have more or less stopped using it as I dont like the taste of the bread.

Most bread machine recipies tend to concentrate on speed at the expense of flavour - they use far more yeast than necessary, and often other unnecessary additives too. They also recommend extra-strong flour which gives a good and fast rise but again the flavour suffers.

I rarely make a pure white loaf but when I do I use a medium strong flour such as Dove's Farm (with a protein level of c.12%), no more than 1/2 teaspoon quick easybake yeast, salt to taste and nothing else, and let the mix sit for about 8 hours before forming into loaves, proving and baking.

The bottom line is that good bread needs time for the flavour to develop. OTOH people like what they are used to and may not care for my version!

[661-Pete]

A good guide is to use one 7g sachet of dried yeast (as sold by most supermarkets) per Kg of flour. Don't overdo it with yeast - except that if baking a small batch of less than 1kg flour, you might as well use the whole of a 7g sachet - else the rest will only be wasted.

[Paulatic]

Nooooo don’t use all the yeast it will not be wasted. Also the bread, unless you lash it with loads of salt, will be over proved.
For a 400g loaf I use 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of yeast which works out at 4 loaves for each pkt. As I make 4-5 loaves/ wk that one 7g pack of yeast lasts a week no problem.
I used to buy the larger Doves farm yeast in an orange packet years ago and found that it’s performance started falling after about a month of opening.

[mercalia]

Nooooo don’t use all the yeast it will not be wasted. Also the bread, unless you lash it with loads of salt, will be over proved.
For a 400g loaf I use 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of yeast which works out at 4 loaves for each pkt. As I make 4-5 loaves/ wk that one 7g pack of yeast lasts a week no problem.
I used to buy the larger Doves farm yeast in an orange packet years ago and found that it’s performance started falling after about a month of opening.

I stopped buying Dove yeast for the same reason. Now use Allinson and keeps very well indeed. I keep mine in the fridge in its metal canister. Mine has lasted years+ without loss of rising ability. its just the bread taste I cant get right. The bread machine lets the bread rest for about 4 hrs. is there any one else here use a bread machine?

[Paulatic]

I use a bread machine all the time, have done for over 20 yrs, with a 4 hr prog for white and 5 hr for wholemeal. Before a machine we used to eat once proven wholemeal , think it was a Cranks,recipe.
Keeping dried yeast in the fridge poses a risk of condensation if you leave it out for long.
Last year when away from home for 7 wks the biggest thing I missed was home made bread. Of all the bread we bought, usually from bakeries, there were only two I’d have bought again.

[mercalia]

I use a bread machine all the time, have done for over 20 yrs, with a 4 hr prog for white and 5 hr for wholemeal. Before a machine we used to eat once proven wholemeal , think it was a Cranks,recipe.
Keeping dried yeast in the fridge poses a risk of condensation if you leave it out for long.
Last year when away from home for 7 wks the biggest thing I missed was home made bread. Of all the bread we bought, usually from bakeries, there were only two I’d have bought again.

well in my case its out and back in within 30 secs or less. the fact that my quick yeast is still good after 1+ years shows no harm has come to it?

I use the standard bread flour from Lidls. I have tried Sainsburys and get the same result in flavour.

this is the Panasonic recipe

3/4 tsp quick yeast
400 grm strong flour
1 tsp sugar
15 grm butter
1tsp salt
280 ml water

thats the Medium loaf/4hr recipe

[Paulatic]

That’s exactly same method as me using LIDL flour mostly and I would use 10 ml olive oil rather than butter. I keep the butter for plastering on the top

[661-Pete]

One word of warning. If you're planning to offer your home-made bread to a vegan, make sure you haven't greased the tins with butter! Easy to make that mistake. Other than that, most types of bread are vegan-friendly.

The type of dried yeast that comes in sealed 7g sachets, doesn't need to be kept in the fridge. At least, we don't.

But I can see from recent posts that there is plenty of room for differences of opinion, on the topic of bread-making. Good luck, anyway, to all those who are trying!

[Vorpal]

Nooooo don’t use all the yeast it will not be wasted. Also the bread, unless you lash it with loads of salt, will be over proved.
For a 400g loaf I use 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of yeast which works out at 4 loaves for each pkt. As I make 4-5 loaves/ wk that one 7g pack of yeast lasts a week no problem.
I used to buy the larger Doves farm yeast in an orange packet years ago and found that it’s performance started falling after about a month of opening.

The amount of yeast needed varies alot according to the flour and bread machine. Wheat bread flour in the UK is naturally high gluten, so less yeast is needed than for wheat flour grown in other countries. If you buy inexpensive varieties of bread flour, it is more likely to have flour from other countries mixed in, and therefore need more yeast.

In Norway, I find I need to use somewhat more yeast than I did in the UK.

Also, as long as the yeast and salt are correctly balanced, more yeast will not necessarily result in over proofing. Some people like a slightly saltier bread.

[mercalia]

That’s exactly same method as me using LIDL flour mostly and I would use 10 ml olive oil rather than butter. I keep the butter for plastering on the top

I have tried olive oil didnt like it. also other oils like coconut oil. didnt like it. I wonder how lIdl make their Tiger bread - thats a decent flavour bread